# USA really too different from English-speaking world to have similar policies? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 27, 2009, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193 "2009-01-27T06:04:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/221 "2009-01-29T20:09:56Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > You won’t debate the subject? Not if it will derail this thread. I just want a yes or no to my above question. ---
**Author:** ![Gam\_Zeh\_Yaavor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@Gam\_Zeh\_Yaavor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gam_Zeh_Yaavor)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/222 "2009-01-29T20:34:49Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > You won’t debate the subject? How about that yes or no, sport? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/223 "2009-01-29T20:55:58Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Not if it will derail this thread. I just want a yes or no to my above question. Ok. My answer to your question is generally speaking, yes. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/224 "2009-01-29T22:27:38Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Diddums. 30% is the basic rate here (Sweden). You get an extra 20% slapped on everything over 327,600 SEK (40,602 USD at the current exchange rate). And? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/225 "2009-01-29T22:30:36Z")
> [@Jayn\_Newell](#): > > News flash–_Healthcare does not respond to market forces_. Private companies can and will charge extra simply because they can–who’s going to forego that heart transplant because of the cost? So yes, the government can do it more efficiently and with less cost, because healthcare is one of the few markets where the wants of the customers and the wants of the private companies are directly at odds with each other. A sick person can’t easily vote with their wallet, as they would do in most other industries, because the alternative may well be death. > > I’m generally not opposed to a free market approach to things, but there are some things which it does not handle well. > > You see all those people who can’t afford care? The ones with chronic conditions they can’t get treated for until something disastrous happens? The ones who go bankrupt from medical bills? The people who have to fight with their insurance companies to get the coverage they’re paying for? _The private system is failing miserably_. The US is a hallmark of how not to manage healthcare to other first world countries. If the current system really worked, don’t you think other countries would be trying to emulate it instead? Newsflash - none of what you say here is in response to my post, it is just more handwringing about people without health care and how the middle class should be happy to pay for it. Go right ahead, just leave me out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/226 "2009-01-29T22:32:56Z")
[QUOTE=An Gadaí] simple yes or no would suffice for now. [/QUOTE] > [@brazil84](#): > > You won’t debate the subject? Interesting… wasn’t it you who posted this a couple pages ago? > [@](#): > > Are you seriously claiming that Mexico has fewer people living in poverty than the United Kingdom; that China has fewer people living in poverty than the United States; and that Jamaica has fewer people living in poverty than Spain? > > A simple yes or no will do. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/227 "2009-01-29T22:36:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > So you’re fine with a system that subsidizes _your_ healthcare, but not with one that subsidizes somebody else’s? I want a system that everyone pays into, not just the responsible citizens. > [@](#): > > Defense, Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid consume about a third of the Federal budget each. I’ll let you guess which one of those things Canada doesn’t have to worry about. Don’t know, don’t care since it is immaterial. > [@](#): > > Caps on med school enrolment were enacted in 1996 as part of the Balanced Budget Act, in order to reduce the cost of Medicare. However, Medicare still pays for an awful lot of the total cost of graduate medical study and residency programs (specific numbers are hard to find). Why? > [@](#): > > It’s the base rate in Florida, and I don’t know where you live. Another reason not to assume that simply because something is X in one place, it must be X in another. Or that X would even work there. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/228 "2009-01-29T22:42:07Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Yes, based on apparently nothing. If you even bothered to read all of _this thread_ there have been numerous examples and links. Just because you’re too lazy to look at the evidence doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Snort. Gee I’m sorry I don’t have that kind of time - why do you? > [@](#): > > Trust me, nothing you’ve posted has been a problem for me to understand, since it’s all mostly 10th grade-level ignorance. I was exaggerating for effect, to point out the stupidity of your argument. It’s an old rhetorical device. As is responding with something that has nothing to do with what I said. OK, you think you are so above me here - explain in simple terms exactly why it is in my best interests to pay more for less. Do not attempt to divert by “showing” that I wouldn’t because you simply cannot prove that since there is no UHC in the US. Come up with facts that actually prove that extending a Medicaid/Medicare type system to all citizens would make it cheaper for the average middle class person and not result in a drop in quality of care. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/229 "2009-01-29T22:44:00Z")
> [@MichaelQReilly](#): > > Maybe it has something to do with the fact that middle class wages have declined in real purchasing power since about 1980 despite the growth of our economy and increases in worker efficiency? And that is because…? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/230 "2009-01-29T22:49:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Interesting… wasn’t it you who posted this a couple pages ago? Yeah . . . so what? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/231 "2009-01-29T22:58:58Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Answering a question related to the original topic and not to underclass, guns, crimes etc.: > > I don’t want to entice anybody who’s already privately insured away to UHC. Why should I? Why do you think I would want to? Are your right-wing politicans maybe implying or outright saying that switching to UHC would mean automatic banning of private insurances? If so, they are lying. I guess, then, people here are lying as they are saying the only way we could have a working UHC would be if everyone participated. Also, from what you say, anyone that is not self-employed must pay a tax into the UHC? > [@](#): > > A normal employee chooses among several legal UHC providers (Gesetzliche Krankenkassen), eg. AOK, DAK, Barmer… He pays a fixed percentage of his gross monthly income, about 6% (it’s really 12-13,x %, split half between employee and employer). > [@](#): > > Unemployed are still in the UHC via the employment office. Where does this money come from? > [@](#): > > Now, because the UHC uses the solidarity principle, all members of a family - spouse and under-18 children - are automatically insured for no additional fee. Meaning they are getting far more (potential) care for the same amount of money that a couple without children would be getting? > [@](#): > > So for families, UHC is an advantage. For everybody with pre-existing conditions, UHC is an advantage. But not for singles, people without pre-existing conditions, couples without children. Also, under HIPAA here, group health policies can no longer arbitrarily deny pre-existing conditions, and in some states/cases, they can’t at all. > [@](#): > > Also, everybody who’s member of a UHC can buy private additonal insurance (Private Zusatzversicherung), e.g. to cover teeth (not fully covered under UHC because they’re so expensive), Interesting. Here dental insurance tends to be cheaper than health insurance because dentistry tends to cost less. ---
**Author:** ![Gam\_Zeh\_Yaavor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@Gam\_Zeh\_Yaavor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gam_Zeh_Yaavor)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/232 "2009-01-29T23:06:11Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Ok. My answer to your question is generally speaking, yes. _ **DING-DING-DING!** _ We have a racist! ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/233 "2009-01-29T23:25:57Z")
Exceptionalism looks so bizarre when laid bare, it really does. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/234 "2009-01-29T23:40:51Z")
> [@Gam\_Zeh\_Yaavor](#): > > _ **DING-DING-DING!** _ We have a racist! It depends how you define “racist,” but sure . . if you define “racist” to include people who believe that general differences in behavior and abilities among different racial groups are in part because of genetic differences, then yeah, I’m a racist. So what? ---
**Author:** ![Gam\_Zeh\_Yaavor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@Gam\_Zeh\_Yaavor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gam_Zeh_Yaavor)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/235 "2009-01-29T23:50:21Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > It depends how you define “racist,” but sure . . if you define “racist” to include people who believe that general differences in behavior and abilities among different racial groups are in part because of genetic differences, then yeah, I’m a racist. So what? Let’s run through this, shall we? 1. I don’t believe that I should share my quality of health care, live around, or even share the same public services (schools, etc) with “underclass types.” —\> 2. “Underclass types” are primarily composed of people of other races. —\> 3. People of these races are predisposed to being members of “the underclass.” —\> 4. People of these races are naturally inferior. —\> 5. I am a racist, and apparently also a white supremacist (see #1). —\> 6. I am a piece of shit. I’m glad we had this talk, **brazil84**. I really am. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/236 "2009-01-30T00:05:29Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > It depends how you define “racist,” but sure . . if you define “racist” to include people who believe that general differences in behavior and abilities among different racial groups are in part because of genetic differences, then yeah, I’m a racist. So what? It is pretty much how _everyone_ defines racist. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/237 "2009-01-30T00:08:47Z")
> [@Gam\_Zeh\_Yaavor](#): > > Let’s run through this, shall we? Lol. It’s a lot easier to invent positions to attack than to respond to peoples’ actual statements, hey? Anyway, I’m not surprised given your self-deception and hypocricy. Enjoy that neighborhood you live in and keep telling yourself that you live there only because it’s convenient. Taking a stand against what you refer to as “NIMBY” is for other people, not for you. If it involves personal cost, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/238 "2009-01-30T00:13:32Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > if you define “racist” to include people who believe that general differences in behavior and abilities among different racial groups are in part because of genetic differences, then yeah, I’m a racist. Yes. Yes you are. ---
**Author:** ![Gam\_Zeh\_Yaavor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@Gam\_Zeh\_Yaavor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gam_Zeh_Yaavor)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/239 "2009-01-30T00:49:21Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Lol. It’s a lot easier to invent positions to attack than to respond to peoples’ actual statements, hey? Anyway, I’m not surprised given your self-deception and hypocricy. > > Enjoy that neighborhood you live in and keep telling yourself that you live there only because it’s convenient. Taking a stand against what you refer to as “NIMBY” is for other people, not for you. If it involves personal cost, anyway. See, here’s the thing. I’d be perfectly happy to try once more to explain how retarded your accusation of hypocrisy is. However, as we’ve apparently ascertained that you’re a white supremacist, it’s pretty unlikely that we’re gonna see eye-to-eye about smaller sub-issues. 'Cause you’re a racist. In a sick sort of way, you’ve successfully defended your stance on universal health care. Of course you don’t want to give the lesser races equal health care! Bless your heart. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/240 "2009-01-30T01:05:47Z")
> [@Gam\_Zeh\_Yaavor](#): > > See, here’s the thing. I’d be perfectly happy to try once more to explain how retarded your accusation of hypocrisy is. ROTFLMAO. Instead, you rather keep throwing up strawmen, hey? I don’t blame you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193.md?page=13)