# USA really too different from English-speaking world to have similar policies? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 27, 2009, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193 "2009-01-27T06:04:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/81 "2009-01-27T21:26:00Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > It isn’t, that’s true. But, the whole “underclass” crap is just a diversionary tactic to allow you to put the boot in on the blacks, again, so it’s irrelevant. Exactly. “Underclass types”? Pathetic. I hate racists who are too pussy to actually admit they’re racists. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/82 "2009-01-27T21:28:07Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > No, I didn’t know that. Are you claiming that the murder rates in the United States are roughly the same as those in the UK and the US figures look higher because justifiable homicides are included? Yes. There are 2.07 intentional homocides per 100,000 in the UK with a population of 60,943,912 There are 5.7 intentional homocides per 100,000 in the US with a population of 303,824,640 I’m too lazy to do the math, but the intentional homocide rate, method not withstanding, has to be higher in the US, what with the extra 242,880,728 people running around. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/83 "2009-01-27T21:31:53Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Cite? > > Are American eating habits really that bad compared to the rest of the world? [It would appear so](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/84 "2009-01-27T21:47:52Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > **Shodan** , > > I am looking for a cite. A cite for what? > [@](#): > > But I would daresay most of the present vaccine refusal does not come from those who are on medicaid and refuse to do the right thing and protect their kids against measles. It comes from many upper middle class parents who read the anti-vax forums at Mothering and put their brain cells on hiatus. They listen to the next door neighbor who swears her son was fine until one day he got TEH EVIL VACCINE from the pHARM company and was broken forever!!! They take Jenny McCarthy seriously. Well, I have actually been banned from the messageboard you mention for not being sufficiently anti-vax, but that is not what I am talking about. What I was talking about is not parents who are anti-vax on principle, but those who just don’t bother to get their kids vaccinated until it is time for school and they have to. In one of the cites to which I linked, it mentions that rates of non-vaccinated children reach 90% in some inner city areas. I rather doubt that this is mostly middle class anti-vax twatbrains. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/85 "2009-01-27T21:50:02Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > No, I didn’t know that. Are you claiming that the murder rates in the United States are roughly the same as those in the UK and the US figures look higher because justifiable homicides are included? No. Britain has a significantly lower murder rate. However, the numbers are closer than they appear. Some of the difference is accounted for in the fact that our murderers shoot each other, which is much more effective than stabbing/defenestrating/dropping in vats of acid/arsenic poisoning, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/86 "2009-01-27T21:56:26Z")
Originally posted by \*\*Captain Amazing \*\* > [@](#): > > That black people are criminals. For brazil84, the answer is always that blacks are evil. And he does not want to share medical facilities with blacks (uh I mean “underclass”) lest he get cooties from them. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/87 "2009-01-27T22:20:45Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > suggesting South Africa is outrageous. 😕 I have no idea what you mean by “suggesting South Africa.” > [@](#): > > Why does violent crime rate matter? I am using it as a rough proxy for the size of our underclass. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/88 "2009-01-27T22:22:56Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > It isn’t, that’s true. But, the whole “underclass” crap is just a diversionary tactic to allow you to put the boot in on the blacks, again, so it’s irrelevant. 😕 I have no idea what you mean by “put the boot in.” I do believe that there is a relationship between race and the underclass in the United States and I have made no secret of that belief. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/89 "2009-01-27T22:29:20Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No. Britain has a significantly lower murder rate. Thank you. > [@](#): > > However, the numbers are closer than they appear. Some of the difference is accounted for in the fact that our murderers shoot each other, which is much more effective than stabbing/defenestrating/dropping in vats of acid/arsenic poisoning, etc. Do you have a cite for that? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/90 "2009-01-27T22:35:42Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > 😕 I have no idea what you mean by “put the boot in.” I do believe that there is a relationship between race and the underclass in the United States and I have made no secret of that belief. “Racist” and/or “bigot” is a far shorter way of expressing said sentiment. Affectaciously, ~NickInUpperLeftCorner ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/91 "2009-01-27T22:43:47Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Doesn’t the underclass already get taxpayer-funded health care, thru Medicaid? > If you are still talking about the underclass, I don’t think they are going bankrupt paying for their own healthcare. Really? As an adult male member of the poor with no kids I’d love to know how to make use of this. While I finish college. Could you give me some literature, maybe a link, about signing up? I live in Michigan if it makes any difference. I understand you wouldn’t post any claims that weren’t true and eagerly await your reply. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/92 "2009-01-27T22:57:30Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Really? As an adult male member of the poor with no kids I’d love to know how to make use of this. While I finish college. > > Could you give me some literature, maybe a link, about signing up? I live in Michigan if it makes any difference. Right here: [http://www.michigan.gov/mdch/0,1607,7-132-2943\_4860-35199--,00.html](http://www.michigan.gov/mdch/0,1607,7-132-2943_4860-35199--,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![Gleena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b3f665/32.png) [@Gleena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gleena)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/93 "2009-01-27T23:14:45Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Sure, but that’s the basic minimum EVERYONE is provided. You can, if you choose, pay a bit more for private care and get immediate treatment for anything, right? Yes, this is true. Further, if you make over a certain generous amount per year, you get a tax break for having private health care. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/94 "2009-01-27T23:21:27Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Right here: > > [http://www.michigan.gov/mdch/0,1607,7-132-2943\_4860-35199--,00.html](http://www.michigan.gov/mdch/0,1607,7-132-2943_4860-35199--,00.html) From your link as a childless able bodied but economically disadvantaged (who in Michigan isn’t these days?) adult I’d qualify for: Adult Benefits Waiver (ABW), a.k.a., Adult Medical Program (AMP) > [@](#): > > ABW/AMP provides basic medical care to low income childless adults who do not qualify for Medicaid. There are asset and income tests. ABW/AMP medical coverage is limited (e.g., inpatient coverage is not covered). However, pharmacy is included. Some counties have a county health plan that the person must be enrolled in to receive ABW/AMP benefits. Some services may require prior authorization from the county health plan or state (if there is no health plan in the county of residence). Contact the local MDHS office in your county to apply for this program. In other words anything that required a stay in the hospital isn’t covered, nor would many surgeries, and possibly anything that required a trip to the ER such as a broken leg. I don’t really know the exact medical definitions of inpatient. I believe it’s anything done at a hospital. That’s assuming they’d even give me autherization. My county is fairly hard hit and as a result has gotten pretty tight fisted when people it need help the most. ☹ If I go knock someone up my coverage could change. There’s a pick up line for you. “how about you, me, behind that dumpster? I need healthcare coverage yo. No condoms! you don’t have herpes right?” I thank you for this link because it’s better then nothing but shouldn’t realistic healthcare coverage include ruptured appendixes and broken legs? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/95 "2009-01-27T23:29:21Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Do you have a cite for that? We cover this in just about every GC thread. Here’s one: [http://www.guncite.com/cnngunde.html](http://www.guncite.com/cnngunde.html) ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/96 "2009-01-27T23:34:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > We cover this in just about every GC thread. Here’s one: > > [http://www.guncite.com/cnngunde.html](http://www.guncite.com/cnngunde.html) I don’t see where in that cite it shows that attacks with firearms are more lethal than, for example, attacks with knives. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/97 "2009-01-28T00:00:04Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > 😕 I have no idea what you mean by “suggesting South Africa.” You suggested that it was reasonable to compare the U.S.A. to South Africa for this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/98 "2009-01-28T00:33:48Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I don’t see where in that cite it shows that attacks with firearms are more lethal than, for example, attacks with knives. Sorry, I thought you wanted a cite for the US gun homicide rate being higher than other countries’. Really, though… you want a cite for the proposition that guns are more lethal than knives? Ask yourself this: when you become Supreme Dictator, do you expect your army to spend more time training with its guns, or with knives? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/99 "2009-01-28T00:54:34Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Sorry, I thought you wanted a cite for the US gun homicide rate being higher than other countries’. No, I wanted a cite for the claim you actually made. Anyway, you are basically arguing – as far as I can tell – that the discrepancy between murder rates between the US and the UK can be explained (in part) by the liberal gun laws we have in the US. However, this argument can be easily dispatched by looking at different states within the United States. > [@](#): > > You suggested that it was reasonable to compare the U.S.A. to South Africa for this issue. Not much less reasonable than comparing the USA to Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/100 "2009-01-28T01:54:04Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Not much less reasonable than comparing the USA to Canada. It’s a lot more reasonable to compare the US to Canada than to compare the US to South Africa. The US and Canada are both first world countries with similar high standards of living and relatively similar income distributions. South Africa is a third world country with endemic poverty and vastly more income inequality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193.md?page=6)