# USA really too different from English-speaking world to have similar policies? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 27, 2009, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193 "2009-01-27T06:04:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/121 "2009-01-28T04:03:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > To be honest, I don’t know. I’ve never been to Jamaica or Mexico. However, given the numbers, I’d have to say yes. :shrug: You are free to define “poverty” however you like. As I noted above, most people’s understand of “poverty” would lead to a conclusion that China has more people living in poverty than the United States. > [@](#): > > I don’t recall blanket bans on private handgun possession in any of those years. _That’s_ gun control. :shrug again: You are free to define “gun control” any way you like. When I referred to it above, I was using a more common understanding of the term. Alas, liberals who push for new gun control laws tend not to advertise in advance that they are merely grandstanding and don’t expect the laws to have much effect. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/122 "2009-01-28T04:05:43Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > My parents were among the top 25% or so of British wage earners. In any case, nurses aren’t going into other fields because they aren’t getting paid enough. Nursing pay is about as high as it’s ever been in relative terms. The current nursing shortage is caused by an increase in the number of opportunities for women without an accompanying decrease in the social stigma of being a male nurse. In the US at least the problem is not so much a lack of people who want to BE nurses, but a lack of training opportunities. Nursing programs have to turn away a lot of capable students. I’m told that at the university where I work, and many others, the root of this problem is that demand for nurses has become so high that qualified nursing instructors can make more money working as nurses than they can teaching. My university would be happy to accept more nursing students, but there’d be no one to handle teaching the extra classes. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/123 "2009-01-28T04:47:19Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > :shrug: You are free to define “poverty” however you like. But how do you define “underclass”? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/124 "2009-01-28T04:58:38Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > But how do you define “underclass”? Bet you the little worm doesn’t answer. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/125 "2009-01-28T05:20:02Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Are you seriously claiming that Mexico has fewer people living in poverty than the United Kingdom; that China has fewer people living in poverty than the United States; and that Jamaica has fewer people living in poverty than Spain? […] > > You are free to define “poverty” however you like. As I noted above, most people’s understand of “poverty” would lead to a conclusion that China has more people living in poverty than the United States. What does China or Mexico or Jamaica have to do with this discussion, though? **Really Not** provided statistics that compared the incidence of poverty in the US with the incidence of poverty **in other First World nations** like Germany, France, the UK, and Canada. Sure, Chinese or Mexican standards of poverty are very different from ours, which is why their numbers on the incidence of poverty, based on their poverty standards, look artificially low by our standards. But French or British or German or Canadian standards of poverty are **not** very different from ours, which is why it’s legitimate to compare our poverty rates with theirs. And that comparison clearly indicates that America does not have a significantly larger percentage of poor people than Canada, or the UK, or Germany. > [@brazil84](#): > > There are a lot of similarities between the United States and Canada, but the critical question here is the size of the underclass. America’s is a lot bigger than that of Canada. Well, clearly that’s not true, if by “underclass” you mean “people living below the poverty line”. But you say that that’s not how you’re defining “underclass”. So okay then, how **are** you defining underclass? Enquiring minds want to know. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/126 "2009-01-28T06:19:50Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > What does China or Mexico or Jamaica have to do with this discussion, though? **Really Not** provided statistics that compared the incidence of poverty in the US with the incidence of poverty **in other First World nations** like Germany, France, the UK, and Canada. > > Sure, Chinese or Mexican standards of poverty are very different from ours, which is why their numbers on the incidence of poverty, based on their poverty standards, look artificially low by our standards. > > But French or British or German or Canadian standards of poverty are **not** very different from ours, which is why it’s legitimate to compare our poverty rates with theirs. > > And that comparison clearly indicates that America does not have a significantly larger percentage of poor people than Canada, or the UK, or Germany. > Well, clearly that’s not true, if by “underclass” you mean “people living below the poverty line”. But you say that that’s not how you’re defining “underclass”. > > So okay then, how **are** you defining underclass? Enquiring minds want to know. You’re not likely to get an answer. Brazil is a stupid coward. His method of debate involves picking a semantic issue and riding it to death. Look at any of the global warming threads from the last couple years in GD. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/127 "2009-01-28T06:42:44Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > And maybe if we dump a lot of money into the Kansas City public schools, it will help raise students’ test scores and diminish the gap between blacks and whites. 😃 Ah, something I’m familiar with. You know what was offensive to the rest of Missouri about the Kansas City desegregation plan? 1) That enormous amounts of _state_ money were given to urban school districts while poor rural school districts coped with what they could manage on local property taxes. 2) And that it was on the say-so on some judge who didn’t answer to legislative correction. Of course, the legislature could have raised state funding of all schools to match it, but then again, it was felt that the amount of money going into KC magnet schools was excessive, not something to be copied everywhere. (And it was surely more attractive to certain interests to keep the inequality as a source of resentment & campaign on that.) You’d better believe I’m for funding schools from a state level–but all of them, with an eye toward equality of opportunity, not just a few districts. I think there’s an interesting parallel here. We spend federal money on health care for only certain people, & this creates resentment–just as spending state money on KC schools & only KC schools created resentment. This is why I think there’d be _less_ popular objection & resentment for a unified UHC plan than for Medicaid as it is now. > [@](#): > > I’m somewhat skeptical of this. For one thing, your scenario seems to assume that “the poor” will act responsibly. But anyway, I have no objection to spending more money on Medicaid to make preventative care more available if there is a bona fide savings in the end. And I have no objection to raising taxes on the middle and upper classes to improve Medicaid, as long as the government does not go overboard. So what do you object to? Are you saying you’d like to just see Medicaid eligibility expanded, but no universal entitlement? That may be easier for some to support in the near term, but I think it’d be more fragile long-term than building a system for everybody. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/128 "2009-01-28T06:58:20Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You don’t think we have welfare bums? Wow, you didn’t see much of Canada. This. Canada & the UK have actual welfare bums/dole dossers. It’s much harder to do in the US, which does not have a general dole. Yet Americans think that the US is somehow more stricken by this attitude of mooching along than other Western countries, which is actually backwards. The US culture just objects to it more. (I think the US culture is kind of nutty about the work ethic, to be honest. To be fair, a high-tech country doesn’t desperately need everyone to work full-time, so free market dynamics mean that the price of labor goes down. If you can’t get the fully employed to work shorter hours & share both the work & the pay–& you generally can’t–then you will end up with some proportion with no regular paying work at all. And yet somehow the non-workers are blamed for this. Yet, try to set up your own business with no start-up capital for a shop or money for a license–like the guys who sell oranges on the freeway or wash windows on the street–& you’re a nuisance no one wants to see. The more of you try to get jobs in an established industry, the more you’re driving their wages down & scaring working people. Try to open up a new sector, & people say, why should I pay for that if I never have before? Give up & you’re a bum. Seems like we want the dynamism of the free market when it’s working for us personally, but anyone struggling from the bottom is expected to crawl into a hole & disappear somehow.) ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/129 "2009-01-28T07:12:53Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I’ve thought about it a lot, and I’m reasonably satisfied that liberal ideas such as enacting gun controls; ramping up school spending; and\*\* otherwise spending a lot of money on social programs \*\*won’t have much of an impact. > > It’s not as though stuff like that hasn’t been tried. Once, for about six years, 40 YEARS AGO. > [@curlcoat](#): > > So, as I thought, UHC is not self sustaining at all. In other words, something else for the middle class to pay for. Where do you get this idea that the middle class is paying for the government’s expenditures, or that the left want the middle class to do so? It’s the upper income levels that control most of the liquid assets! ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/130 "2009-01-28T07:28:22Z")
To address the subject line’s question, I remember a worldwide poll of most of the major First and Second World countries done by Reader’s Digest not long before the election on various topics. In every other country they polled besides the United States, Obama outpolled McCain by something like an average of a 2 to 1 margin. That alone tells me that there’s a big gulf that I really can’t explain (though **foolsguinea’s** theory seems attractive, at least). ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/131 "2009-01-28T07:46:04Z")
> [@](#): > > **catsix** : The only reason I give a damn at all about whether we have health insurance tax in the US is because it directly affects me. The fact that we don’t have UHC now is affecting you too. Most of the things that you buy (products and services) are made available by a company that charges you **more** because it pays all or part of its employees’ health care insurance. That’s true of everything from food to cars. With UHC those extra charges would be unnecessary. > [@](#): > > **xan:** Are there any estimates on how much UHC will cost each person in taxes per year? I don’t know. Is there any estimate of how much you are already paying in extra charges on products and services because of other people’s health insurance costs? I was in a situation where I had to take advantage of the health care system in France – including the free ambulance. I’ve also been able to see how proud the Danes are of their health care system. Imagine never having to worry about whether you can afford a certain treatment or a stay in the hospital or care for you child or aging parent. Here I’ve seen my mother go without medicine she needs. (And she is reasonably well off.) The medicine is too expensive – $700 a month. (Before medicare began to pay.) My sister was getting a shot once a month that was $10,000 a pop. Today I received a letter from Blue Cross with a long list of generic medicines that I _had_ to use instead of the medicine the doctor wanted me to take. So that has begun even in contract negotiated insurance for teachers. My insurance company makes me sick. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/132 "2009-01-28T08:23:38Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Where do you get this idea that the middle class is paying for the government’s expenditures, or that the left want the middle class to do so? It’s the upper income levels that control most of the liquid assets! The upper income levels control most of the liquid assets, so that means that they don’t have to pay the same percentage of taxes as the middle class, eh? We are getting taxed into extinction but the rich get richer - how does that work? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/133 "2009-01-28T08:29:34Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > (I think the US culture is kind of nutty about the work ethic, to be honest. To be fair, a high-tech country doesn’t desperately need everyone to work full-time, so free market dynamics mean that the price of labor goes down. If you can’t get the fully employed to work shorter hours & share both the work & the pay–& you generally can’t–then you will end up with some proportion with no regular paying work at all. Gosh, how selfish of the fully employed, to want to stay that way so they can pay their bills. > [@](#): > > And yet somehow the non-workers are blamed for this. Yet, try to set up your own business with no start-up capital for a shop or money for a license–like the guys who sell oranges on the freeway or wash windows on the street–& you’re a nuisance no one wants to see. The more of you try to get jobs in an established industry, the more you’re driving their wages down & scaring working people. Try to open up a new sector, & people say, why should I pay for that if I never have before? Give up & you’re a bum. Seems like we want the dynamism of the free market when it’s working for us personally, but anyone struggling from the bottom is expected to crawl into a hole & disappear somehow.) These things don’t connect the way you seem to think they do. Prime examples are the Mexicans that come here to S Cal and work their way up, usually knowing very little English. The biggest reason there are so many unemployed? Overpopulation - more people needing work than there are jobs to give them. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/134 "2009-01-28T09:03:26Z")
I think it is overpopulation as well. Which is why I’m for family planning, & government funding of same. That said, something weird is going on with medicine in this country. Hospitals are struggling to survive in the market economy, & jobs in health care are being lost, even as health care seems to have gotten so expensive. Maybe they priced themselves so high they collapsed their demand. [Los Angeles man kills self, family after losing medical tech job](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090128/ap_on_re_us/bodies_found;_ylt=AtV4zsN.RmaLyt2Rm.mzmJ1H2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTE5ZGhzcXZrBHBvcwMxBHNlYwN5bi1tb3N0LXZpZXdlZARzbGsDbGFtYW51cHNldG92) [I’m not sure if this is the Tulsa hospital I was hearing about almost shutting down. Probably, but I suppose there could have been two.](http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20081126_16_A1_hOffic930370) ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/135 "2009-01-28T11:24:37Z")
Howdy. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > How about I pretend this difference doesn’t exist by using an actual meaningful statistic, like [the percentage of each country’s population living below the poverty line](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_pop_bel_pov_lin-economy-population-below-poverty-line)? > > UK 14% > > France 6.2% > > United States 12% > … I live in the UK and given my somewhat limited experience of the US underclass (ie. watching ‘The Wire’) this immediately struck me as odd. From the same site, percentage of population below median income: UK - 12.5 [Cite](http://www.nationmaster.com/country/uk-united-kingdom/eco-economy) US - 17 [Cite](http://www.nationmaster.com/country/us-united-states/eco-economy) So why the descrepancy of the figures? As stated by a previous poster, not all poverty measurements were created equal. I’ll use Wikipedia as cites here, since I can’t find official documents that aren’t in PDF files: UK - Uses a relative poverty measurement of below 60% of the median income. [Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_united_kingdom) US - Uses something more akin to an absolute measurement based on what the DoA decides is a living food allowance. [Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States#The_official_measure_of_poverty) Using data from 2007 you can convert the US poverty measurement into the UK’s relative measurement for a more useful picture: US Median income 2007: $50,233 [Cite](http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/income_wealth/012528.html) Poverty threshhold (5 person family, mainland U.S.): $24,800 Equivalent relative measure: 49.37% of median income So there is clearly a significant disrepancy, and I would suspect that by the UK’s measurement the US would have at least the UK’s 14% poverty, probably more. I would personally be careful about using the word ‘underclass’ to describe people of low-income as IMO it is a bit of a loaded term. Someone can be poor but still raise their family well and not be a burden on society, or they can be a welfare-sponging, shell-suit wearing pikey with 5 kids and no desire to work. To me only the second type is the ‘underclass’, but then I’m English and I’ve been told we’re overly sensitive on matters of class :). And just get UHC already. It’ll almost certainly be cheaper for everyone despite having to support the ‘underclass’, although with the attitude I’ve seen from some people the objection is based more on the principle of helping someone else rather than any well founded practical concern. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/136 "2009-01-28T11:38:36Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > You gotta be kidding me. > > This from your cite: > > Anyway, it’s nice to know that Mexico has fewer people living in poverty than the United Kingdom and China has fewer people living in poverty than the United States. > > I guess that’s why so many Americans are paying money to sneak into China to work in indentured servitude. > > Oh, and did you notice that Jamaica has less people living in poverty than Spain? > > :rolleyes: Poverty is relative, genius. If the average worker makes 5 dollars a day, the guy who makes 1$ is living in poverty _in that country_. People making minimum wage in the US would be considered positively wealthy in Mexico or Jamaica. ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/137 "2009-01-28T11:40:05Z")
> [@Baboonanza](#): > > … descrepancy > … disrepancy The school system here is shit though. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/138 "2009-01-28T13:29:55Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Read what I actually wrote. I said I lived up on the border, which would indicate to anyone that we are talking more than a couple of Canadians, I married a Canadian which indicates Canadian inlaws, and I have traveled quite a bit there. And you think this gives you an insight into Canadian poverty and relative levels of poverty between the two countries? Living on the border gives you no insight at all; you have anecdotal observations of one place in Canada. Most Canadian poverty is tucked away from the border, and the REALLY bad stuff is on Indian reservations. We have an entire class of people, many of them hopelessly poor, who actually have a different legal designation from other Canadians that helps to keep them poor. Believe me, we have lots of poor people, and the fact that you have not personally seen then means jack shit. We have lots of welfare bums. > [@](#): > > The biggest reason there are so many unemployed? Overpopulation - more people needing work than there are jobs to give them. That’s hilariously dumb. If the reason for unemployment was overpopulation, then the current U.S. unemployment rate should be the highest it has ever been, which it is not. In 1932 the United States had 125 million people and an unemployment rate of 25%. Today the population is 300 million people and the unemployment rate is about 7.5%. Tell me, if overpopulation causes unemployment, how did the unemployment rate NOT go up while the population was increasing so much? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/139 "2009-01-28T13:45:01Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > How do you define underclass? I would define it as a follows: First, it’s people who have a strong tendency to engage in various irresponsible/improvident/self-destructive behavior. For example, people in the underclass frequently get into trouble with the law; frequently become parents (out of wedlock) as teenagers; frequently get into drugs; tend to have trouble holding down a job; often drop out of school; etc. Second, people in the underclass typically have family members who are similar. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193/140 "2009-01-28T13:48:30Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > How are you defining “underclass”? Besides the chronically unemployed, do you include low wage workers? It would depend on the low wage worker. “Underclass” is more a set of behaviors than an income level, in my opinion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-really-too-different-from-english-speaking-world-to-have-similar-policies/483193.md?page=8)