# USA turns Tikrit into Iraq's West Bank **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 18, 2003, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-turns-tikrit-into-iraqs-west-bank/213855 "2003-11-18T04:46:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-turns-tikrit-into-iraqs-west-bank/213855/61 "2003-11-21T04:10:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by smiling bandit \* > **Well, from the Neocon perspectiuve (which I share) the goal all along was to free Iraq, and rebuild it into a stable democracy.** I’ll believe thsi when I see the U.S. support an actual democracy in Iraq, by which I mean one that is not run by U.S.-appointed puppets, kept in power by U.S. soldiers. I’m not holding my breath. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-turns-tikrit-into-iraqs-west-bank/213855/62 "2003-11-21T06:56:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > Not gonna happen, either. With Bush’s disdain for the UN or anything else resembling internationalism being so well-established, a change of policy to depend on it would have to start with a seriouis amount of public self-abasement on his part. That would certainly be seen as a defeat, with all the negative electoral effects. So you do have to expect him to keep doing what he’s been doing, and hoping to be bailed out by new events he can spin. If you seriously think Bush isn’t almost desperate for help – big help – from Europe and the UN, then we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Here’s a thought though; re-election becomes much harder if things stay as they are, and he can’t withdrawal US troops and leave an unstable vacuum - that would be seen as genuine defeat. But he can spin a partial handover to the UN and an ‘Authority’ as a job well done, at least to his existing constituency. Right now, he needs to persuade Europe and the UN it’s better \*for them \*to act rather than watch him continue to slide into the Iraqi abyss (and they want Bush gone so very much). Hence this brand new Plan B which is entirely designed to bring him negotiating leverage for a partial handover. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-turns-tikrit-into-iraqs-west-bank/213855/63 "2003-11-21T07:17:39Z")
[US, UK plan new UN resolution on Iraq](http://www.hipakistan.com/en/detail.php?newsId=en45674&F_catID=&f_type=source) ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-turns-tikrit-into-iraqs-west-bank/213855/64 "2003-11-21T08:18:43Z")
Well played, **Squink**. On first blush this gambit (that you link to) is another half step along the road Bush must travel. This one takes us from the US/Bush “sharing the burden” position (never a winner but worth a giggle) to actually beginning to address the primary European position which could be summarised as ‘Iraqi Sovereignty on the table first, then help’. Still needs to suppress the ‘insurgents’ as well, though. Mutli-pronged approach, and all that . . . ‘Shock and Awe II’ must continue for some time yet. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-turns-tikrit-into-iraqs-west-bank/213855/65 "2003-11-21T16:47:52Z")
He’s desperate for help, but he doesn’t know it yet, or perhaps he can’t make himself face what has to be done to get it. We don’t disagree. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-turns-tikrit-into-iraqs-west-bank/213855.md?page=3)