# "USA! USA! USA!" Shut UP! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 15, 2001, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778 "2001-09-15T05:52:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778/101 "2001-09-21T17:32:15Z")
> [@](#): > > If someone throws a rock through my window, it’s not self-defense to get in my car, drive to his house and beat him up. Yeah, but if someone (lets say a murderer) throws a rock through my window and it kills someone in my family, and then recieve further threats for similar such acts, and law enforcement is sent to get him…well, this is a much better analogy than yours. > [@](#): > > please don’t pretend that blowing up Afghans who don’t support bin Laden or the Taliban is about self-defense. Oh, please. :rolleyes: What the fuck do you think that whole “national defense” deal is? And you don’t think that terrorists highjacking planes and blowing up buildings with them are not threats to national security? When WILL you think it is an issue of national defense? When 10,000 people die? When a million? > [@](#): > > If pacifism were embraced universally there would be no need for weapons. You’re really that naive? You’re more pathetic than I thought. > [@](#): > > Cheering for future death is somewhat less repulsive than cheering for actual death. But they weren’t cheering for death, cumwad. > [@](#): > > I guess I don’t understand the distinction between standing against someone who would give me shit for not chanting and standing against someone who gives me shit for critiquing those who chant. I guess you simply can’t grasp the concept that maybe we’re giving you shit because you’re being an ASSHOLE to people who are doing a helluva lot more productive than you _sitting_ there being a whiny little bitch about the rescue workers trying to lift their spirits. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778/102 "2001-09-21T17:41:01Z")
What I find especially sad is that of all the gay posters, only one seems to be willing to support defending our nation from its enemies. Maybe the military is right to keep us out. ☹ **Otto** , you’re an embarrassment to any decent American. ---
**Author:** ![Mu\_Mu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Mu\_Mu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mu_Mu)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778/103 "2001-09-21T17:59:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\*Mu-Shu, what’s life without lithium like, anyway? > > Fenris \*\* Normal. Duh. What’s it like with lithium? ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778/104 "2001-09-21T18:07:25Z")
> [@](#): > > The answer to the second question is implicit in the first. If pacifism were embraced universally there would be no need for weapons. The first question was: \*\*is there any context under which a chant of USA would not offend you? \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Mu\_Mu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Mu\_Mu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mu_Mu)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778/105 "2001-09-21T18:28:47Z")
I’m not offended by it. It’s no worse than Ole! or Rah! Those would also be offensive at the WTC. ---
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778/106 "2001-09-21T18:39:09Z")
This is going to be a long post, because the post quoted below really set me off… > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Otto \* > **If pacifism were embraced universally there would be no need for weapons.** In a candy-covered, happy-go-lucky, idiot-proof world this would be a nice ideal to have. Unfortunately, this is the real world. Pacifism is not universally embraced. There are people out there who would be delighted to see the United States go up in flames. Our country has the right to defend itself with weapons. We are not going to defeat the terrorists by throwing daisies at them. We are not going to defeat them by giving them a bad look and saying, “No more of that!” We are not going to defeat them by wagging our finger at them and saying, “Naughty, naughty!” Catching Osama bin Laden will require force. Catching the rest of his terrorist organization will require force. We will not achieve our objectives any other way. We are not dealing with a country that you can negotiate with, nor are we dealing with an organization on which you can apply diplomatic pressure. This is al-Qaeda, a terrorist organization that answers only to itself. Diplomacy will not work. Negotiation will not work. Force is required, and anyone who believes that the terrorists can simply be talked out of not sending suicide troops to our shores is dangerously naive. I do not enjoy the idea of fellow Americans fighting in a long and protracted war. I do not enjoy the idea that we will be committed to a lenghty and difficult campaign, and civilian casualties in other lands may be unavoidable. None of this is pleasing to me. But what is less pleasing is the concept of simply taking no action all, for that will give them the idea that we will simply absorb whatever blow is delivered, and put up no defense. That kind of approach puts our citizens at home in terrible danger, including you, **Otto**. **Otto** , perhaps you don’t understand the magnitude of what has happened, the implications of the recent events. This was an enormous and unprecented change in how terrorists inflict their harm on the U.S. Our own home soil has been exposed as vulnerable, and they will strike again. I am certain of it. They _will_ strike again, and they will take no regard of your pacifistic ideals or desires for world peace. They will take no regard of your moral stance on world problems. They will strike again, _unless we put their terrorist organization out of operation, and stop any future terrorist actions from happening again_. I doubt that we will ever be totally immune from future terrorist attacks. But we can, and should, do whatever we can to minimize the danger. That includes crushing bin Laden’s organization. The events of September 11, 2001 will likely come to be remembered as a watershed moment in our country’s history, a line of demarcation where an abrupt and radical change can be seen to have occurred in our nation. April 12, 1861 was such a day. December 7, 1941 was another such day. November 22, 1963 was another. Our national psyche has been badly shaken, and in response to such a shock, it does not surprise me that one of the ways we seek to endure these moments is to show patriotism. The terrorists performed this obscene act because of who they believe we are. We are now showing the world what we really are. The terrorists sought to demoralize us, to terrorize us. They have done nothing of the sort. They have sought to make us lose faith in our country, to lose faith in our security. They will fail in that endeavor as weel. And part of the reason why they will fail is because of ordinary citizens displaying their patriotism. This patriotic display isn’t simply a jingoistic pose. I see it as a direct rebuke to the terrorists. That you would take such strong exception to this rallying to the country is disheartening. If you choose not to demonstrate any outward signs of patriotism, that is your choice. If you choose to criticize others for their display of patriotism, that is your choice as well. But it is a poor choice, because by questioning these displays of patriotism, you are giving the impression that it is wrong to do what you can, however you can, to maintain your spirit in the face of such horror. ---
**Author:** ![Arden\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778/107 "2001-09-21T18:41:21Z")
Well said., Atreyu. Well said. ---
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778/108 "2001-09-21T18:45:33Z")
Yeesh. :o Sorry about the double post, especially since it was so long. If a mod wants to delete one, go right ahead. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778/109 "2001-09-21T18:46:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mu Mu \* > \*\*Want to know why this is such a one-sided thread? > They keep deleting those posts that support you. > There were a couple yesterday, something that “sports heroism” is not all that heroic. > > Just thought you’d like to know. \*\* This is a blatant lie. By telling such untruths you attempt to undermine the faith and trust the Teeming Millions have in board management; the goodwill between us is all we have. Those that know better, know better. your humble TubaDiva Administrator ---
**Author:** ![Arden\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778/110 "2001-09-21T18:57:52Z")
It will take more than that to undermine our trust in the staff, **Tuba**. Anyone that has been keeping up with this thread knows that remark of mu’s is a steaming pile of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778/111 "2001-09-21T19:12:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Otto \* > \*\* > …If pacifism were embraced universally there would be no need for weapons… > \*\* Tautologically true yes. Realistic? Yes, like alien crop circles. Pacifism in the face of a Jihad is suicide. Moreover, if everyone embraced pacifism, a motivated minority would quickly abandon it–the instant some critical resource, survival, or principle was at stake–and take over the world. I would love to hear of a time in human history, or animal history for that matter, when total pacifism worked. USA! ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778/112 "2001-09-21T19:12:35Z")
psst, **otto** , you’re an idiot! morons like you spring up during every conflict, and unlike Viet Nam, you ain’t justified this time. Go crawl back under your rock, Copperhead… ---
**Author:** ![simulpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@simulpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simulpost)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778/113 "2001-09-21T19:33:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TubaDiva \* > \*\*\*Originally posted by Mu Mu \* > \*\*Want to know why this is such a one-sided thread? > They keep deleting those posts that support you. > There were a couple yesterday, something that “sports heroism” is not all that heroic. > > Just thought you’d like to know.\*\* > > This is a blatant lie. > > By telling such untruths you attempt to undermine the faith and trust the Teeming Millions have in board management; the goodwill between us is all we have. > > Those that know better, know better. > > your humble TubaDiva > Administrator\*\* Try looking in your **Temporary Internet Files** directory. I did, and found this fragment (hope it custs and pastes enough to make sense): ```auto So I'll say it again. You misunderstood the meaning of and the motivation for the chant. I hope that helps. 09-20-2001 08:29 AM IP: Logged hasterly Member Registered: Mar 2001 Posts: 4 The "meaning"? I'll give you a clue. Sports have no meaning. Sports as philosophy is ludicrous. Sports as a guide to humanity is just wrong. Sports heros don't enter burning buildings, they choke their coaches, deal drugs to minors, shave points. They also chant USA at gravesites. __________________ Hi Mom! ``` Since the poster is now listed with only one post in his profile, it looks like someone didn’t like his posts. [Edited by TubaDiva on 09-21-2001 at 07:33 PM] ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778/114 "2001-09-21T19:52:37Z")
Tuba bans **Mu Mu** right after he answers my question to Otto. Now Otto will be afraid to answer lest he get banned, too. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778/115 "2001-09-21T20:07:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Since the poster is now listed with only one post in his profile, it looks like someone didn’t like his posts. Yeah, it was from someone I banned before, and I’ll ban again if I see him. I removed all his posts, and hid the thread that he started. He’s a troll. I didn’t remove any of his posts because of their content, but because he’s banned. I removed ONE of his posts in this thread. And I see that Mu Mu concluded that I removed others, and was (as usual) ready to slam the administration of this board. Someone needs another hobby. Oh, and I _didn’t_ ban Mu Mu. Someone else did. Lynn For the Straight Dope ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778/116 "2001-09-21T20:28:09Z")
You know something? I just ran a trace on Simulpost’s IPs. And I just called the company that the IP supposedly traced to. Someone’s masked his IP, a big No-No. Hmmmm, wonder who else is using that IP? Lynn Administrator In a fool-smacking mood today. ---
**Author:** ![Arden\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778/117 "2001-09-21T20:47:42Z")
::basking in Lynn’s righteous fury:: ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778/118 "2001-09-21T21:01:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lynn Bodoni \* > \*\*Lynn > Administrator > In a fool-smacking mood today. \*\* Oh no! RUN!!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778/119 "2001-09-21T21:48:23Z")
Y’know, I just want to point out that Otto’s irrational idealisim is nauseating. Does he really think that, if we just laid down and did _nothing_ to respond to the WTC tragedy, our dear friend Bin Laden (who absolutely hates everything and anything American) will do the same? I just fear that someday Otto may actually be in a position to force his delusion onto other people. ---
**Author:** ![coosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@coosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coosa)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778/120 "2001-09-21T23:30:28Z")
_Ahem_ May I direct everyone’s attention to [this story](http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_405009.html)? > [@](#): > > European Union leaders have backed targeted US retaliation against countries harbouring terrorists and said they were prepared to help. and > [@](#): > > Mr Straw said the conclusions of an emergency EU summit in Brussels made clear that Europe accepted the legitimacy of any military riposte by the US in response to the atrocities in Washington and New York. > > He warned that, given the scale of the terrorist attacks, there was understanding in Europe that the US action would be “significant”. Sorry, **Otto** , looks like the European leaders don’t agree with you. Pacifism is definitely not the order of the day - looks like **whupass** is the popular idea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-usa-usa-shut-up/81778.md?page=7)