# USA v. Microsoft **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 4, 2016, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-v-microsoft/747910 "2016-03-04T11:47:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bomberswarm2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c37758/32.png) [@bomberswarm2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bomberswarm2)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-v-microsoft/747910/1 "2016-03-04T11:47:59Z")
Why did this case ever exist? From what I can gather Microsoft was accused of having a monopoly on web browsers. Seeing as all web-browsers are free right now, this lawsuit makes no sense. In 1998 were browsers really being sold on discs, and there was not one single free alternative? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-v-microsoft/747910/2 "2016-03-04T11:58:11Z")
Web browsers are free right now, but in the 1990s, they weren’t. Netscape, for instance, cost $49. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-v-microsoft/747910/3 "2016-03-04T13:08:31Z")
Didn’t the European authorities give Microsoft grief pretty recently over the fact that it bundled Internet Explorer in with Windows? Now _that_ was pretty effing stupid, because in this day & age, I doubt you can even find a web browser that can’t be gotten for free. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-v-microsoft/747910/4 "2016-03-04T13:43:00Z")
There are many ways to make money off a “free” software. Sometimes the client (e.g. browser) is free, but it works best with the server from the same company, which isn’t free. Sometimes a software is free for personal use but there’s a corporate version with tech support that can be purchased for a fee. Sometimes the company makes money by advertising through it (e.g. web search engines), or taking a cut of purchases made on that system (e.g. Android OS is free, but they take a cut of every app store sale). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-v-microsoft/747910/5 "2016-03-04T13:47:17Z")
Slate’s Matthew Yglesias says “The Justice Department Was Absolutely Right to Go After Microsoft in the 1990s” — [Microsoft antitrust suit: The vindication of the Justice Department.](http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/08/26/microsoft_antitrust_suit_the_vindication_of_the_justice_department.html) > [@](#): > > Had that not happened, it’s entirely possible that Microsoft could have used its dominance of the PC marketplace to substantially pre-empt the rise of Google. Imagine a world in which more than 90 percent of people have Microsoft computers that default to a Microsoft Web browser that defaults to a Microsoft-owned search engine. Google search is out there as a kind of niche product for serious nerds, but it never generates the kind of revenue flow necessary to move in to start dominating the webmail and map spaces. Apple still comes along with the incredibly popular iPod series of MP3 players. Steve Jobs still recognizes that the growing power of mobile phones will eventually destroy the market for MP3 players, so Apple needs to make a phone. But with Microsoft-owned Web services for search and mapping dominating the Internet and exclusively available to users of Windows Phone, it’s not possible for rival smartphones to ever go mainstream. Besides, Microsoft turns out to be able to make some pretty good touchscreen phones! And their mail and maps and search clients are all pretty good, too! Everyone says that you just can’t beat Microsoft because Microsoft can hire the best engineers. The only problem is that since this whole teetering empire is built upon utter domination of the traditional personal computer industry, the company as a whole is obsessed with cannibalization. It never wants to come out with a tablet that’s good enough that it convinces people they don’t need to own a PC. It never wants Web services that are so smooth and seamless that people can imagine buying ultracheap browser-only laptops rather than fully powered ones. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-v-microsoft/747910/6 "2016-03-04T13:47:53Z")
One of the issues was that Microsoft didn’t give other browser developers access to certain APIs, so that they were at a speed disadvantage. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-v-microsoft/747910/7 "2016-03-04T15:59:27Z")
Even now you can’t make Chrome the default app for the newest Windows. I can’t recall the precise details, but when you try you get a message that says your browser requires some specific function that, entirely by coincidence I’m sure, IE has and Chrome doesn’t. :dubious: You can still use Chrome, but it won’t integrate with the main Windows page. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-v-microsoft/747910/8 "2016-03-04T16:44:25Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Even now you can’t make Chrome the default app for the newest Windows. I can’t recall the precise details, but when you try you get a message that says your browser requires some specific function that, entirely by coincidence I’m sure, IE has and Chrome doesn’t. :dubious: > > You can still use Chrome, but it won’t integrate with the main Windows page. I have Chrome set as my default browser on my laptop. Not sure what you mean by “integrate with the main Windows page.” MS is pushing their Edge browser. In fact, IE is not even in the start menu or on the task bar on a clean install of Windows 10. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-v-microsoft/747910/9 "2016-03-04T17:02:39Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Didn’t the European authorities give Microsoft grief pretty recently over the fact that it bundled Internet Explorer in with Windows? Now _that_ was pretty effing stupid, because in this day & age, I doubt you can even find a web browser that can’t be gotten for free. In this day and age I doubt you can even find a web browser that you can get without already having a web browser to buy it with. Catch-22! 🙂 Not really of course since you can sneakernet or email or … the install package onto the browser-less machine. But these are real barriers to the less technical folks. For locked-down systems like iPad or phones the only way to get an app on the device is to have a browser and get the app from the store. Which just happens to not sell any competing browsers because of concerns for “compatibility” and “consumer safety”. Of course. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-v-microsoft/747910/10 "2016-03-04T19:22:42Z")
I take it you’ve never had an iPhone, or if you did have one, you’ve never looked in the App Store for web browsers? Because plenty are available. I currently have Firefox and Chrome on my phone and formerly had Opera. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-v-microsoft/747910/11 "2016-03-04T19:40:04Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > In this day and age I doubt you can even find a web browser that you can get without already having a web browser to buy it with. Catch-22! 🙂 apt-get install firefox yum install firefox Oh, Windows. Never mind. Still, Internet Exploiter (or Edge) is still included with Windows. The primary use of these fine software products is to download an actual browser. 😃 And since MS was beaten around the head and shoulders, the bundled browser doesn’t have that much of an architectural inside track. (To my knowledge, the only advantage is that internal use of HTML rendering in things like native GUIs is handled by the guts of IE, in the form of the underlying libraries. For actual no-kidding browser stuff, no aftermarket browser is meaningfully impaired compared to IE.) ---
**Author:** ![Hocus\_Pocus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hocus\_Pocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hocus_Pocus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-v-microsoft/747910/12 "2016-03-04T19:45:14Z")
What I find funny about talk of Microsquish running a monopoly is that it’s nearly impossible to find a car radio that is equipped to handle Andriods instead of in in addition to iphones. It’s nearly impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-v-microsoft/747910/13 "2016-03-04T19:49:42Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > What I find funny about talk of Microsquish running a monopoly is that it’s nearly impossible to find a car radio that is equipped to handle Andriods instead of in in addition to iphones. It’s nearly impossible. Android is from Google, not a Microsoft product. Microsoft has Windows Phone/Windows 10 Mobile. ---
**Author:** ![Hocus\_Pocus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hocus\_Pocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hocus_Pocus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-v-microsoft/747910/14 "2016-03-04T20:06:08Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Android is from Google, not a Microsoft product. Microsoft has Windows Phone/Windows 10 Mobile. True, but car stereos are still a monopoly for Apple. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-v-microsoft/747910/15 "2016-03-04T20:13:07Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > What I find funny about talk of Microsquish running a monopoly is that it’s nearly impossible to find a car radio that is equipped to handle Andriods instead of in in addition to iphones. It’s nearly impossible. > [@Peremensoe](#): > > Android is from Google, not a Microsoft product. Microsoft has Windows Phone/Windows 10 Mobile. IMO what **Hocus Pocus** is suggesting is that Microsoft gets all the bad press for being a monopolist, but Apple is the one who’s actually a monopolist today. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-v-microsoft/747910/16 "2016-03-04T20:15:21Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > apt-get install firefox > > yum install firefox > > Oh, Windows. Never mind. Still, Internet Exploiter (or Edge) is still included with Windows. The primary use of these fine software products is to download an actual browser. 😃 > > And since MS was beaten around the head and shoulders, the bundled browser doesn’t have that much of an architectural inside track. (To my knowledge, the only advantage is that internal use of HTML rendering in things like native GUIs is handled by the guts of IE, in the form of the underlying libraries. For actual no-kidding browser stuff, no aftermarket browser is meaningfully impaired compared to IE.) And the market penetration of Linux amongst the clueless non-technical rubes I was referring to is? To within 3 sigfigs it’s zero. Next. Besides, as I said, I was mostly kidding about the seeming paradox of needing a browser to accomplish online purchases of software. And how well does apt-get work on an iPhone? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-v-microsoft/747910/17 "2016-03-04T20:30:43Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Web browsers are free right now, but in the 1990s, they weren’t. Netscape, for instance, cost $49. I don’t remember ever paying for it. Kid today 🙂 don’t know what is like back then. A browser would have to be downloaded over a very slow connection, possibly dial-up. Most did not come with fancy install packages. And most people were petrified of doing anything so complicated as downloading software. Floppies they could handle. (Maybe Netscape on a floppy cost $49.) So if the computer did not come preloaded with Netscape, it was not going to be used. Not to mention that my oldish HTML book is full of examples of IE specific html constructs. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-v-microsoft/747910/18 "2016-03-04T20:42:41Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > True, but car stereos are still a monopoly for Apple. Not really. There are plenty of Android USB controlled stereos, if you want steering-wheel or in-dash controls. Or you can just use an Aux input and controls on the phone. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-v-microsoft/747910/19 "2016-03-04T20:49:26Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > True, but car stereos are still a monopoly for Apple. I’m not even sure what this means. I have an android, and my car can play any music on it via Bluetooth, just as it can manage hands-free phone calls and text messaging to/from it. What will a car stereo do for an iPhone that it won’t do for an android? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-v-microsoft/747910/20 "2016-03-04T20:50:42Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Slate’s Matthew Yglesias says… I don’t really understand that. Why would bundled IE have blocked the rise of Google? They were already huge long before Chrome was a thing. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-v-microsoft/747910.md?page=2)