# USA vs England - May 28 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 26, 2005, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-vs-england-may-28/305587 "2005-05-26T13:08:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-vs-england-may-28/305587/1 "2005-05-26T13:08:33Z")
Wanted to have some discussion and friendly ribbing on this but didn’t feel it belongs in the current Premiership thread. First, some ground rules: 1. Yes, this is a friendly, mostly\* meaningless game. 2. Neither team is going to have their A side playing. England look to at best field a C+ side. USA is at about what I would rate a B right now, but a lot of that is due to injuries and I think the Bruce really wants to win this, so I’d expect a A- side if enough people heal up and depending on which guys from Europe he gives a rest to. We have a WC qualifier the following week against Costa Rica, so it’s a bit of a build up to that. 3. SGE is notorious for taking friendlies very lightly, so any result can be argued ad nauseum as worthless. Still, it will be interesting to see some of England’s younger/less utilized guys and how they show. Sometimes they’re more motivated to make an impression than when all of the stars are out there for a meaningless game. And from a USA perspective, this is where we might see some of the guys that are our future as well. How many minutes will Dempsey get? Will we see Marcus in goal? So, any thoughts? Will the English even watch this? I’ll post full rosters here when I see them. \*I say “mostly” here because friendlies are one part of the formula used for seeding World Cup groups. It’s a complicated formula, which takes into account performance in the last three World Cups and the (much maligned) FIFA Coca Cola rankings. Continental championships count the most, then WC qualifiers, then international friendlies. I think there is also some weighting based on where the game is played (so England would gain more by winning in the USA than the USA would stand to gain). Now, if England qualify for WQ 06, which seems pretty certain at this point, they will be a seeded side (currently third behind Brazil and Spain). Netherlands and USA are “on the bubble” for a seed, with Netherlands ahead of the USA. We can discuss this more if anyone is interested. ---
**Author:** ![Ithaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Ithaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ithaka)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-vs-england-may-28/305587/2 "2005-05-26T13:35:16Z")
We really need old **Owl** back so that he could relate to us his high opinion of “soccer” in the USA - ah, well. I’m hoping Sven might start the game with Andy Johnson up front, he’s said he intends to at some point. AJ is the second best striker in the Premiership, only beaten by Henry. This is despite his team, Crystal Palace, being relegated (he scored loads, but no one else scored any ☹ ). He’s maybe not the classiest player you’ve ever seen but he’s quick, works hard and gets on the end of stuff. The [results](http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/top_scorers/default.stm) speak for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-vs-england-may-28/305587/3 "2005-05-26T13:38:43Z")
The knock on AJ has been the number of his goals which have come from the penalty spot. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-vs-england-may-28/305587/4 "2005-05-26T13:38:50Z")
WHat are the odds of Crouch being offered a basketball contract after the match 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-vs-england-may-28/305587/5 "2005-05-26T13:42:08Z")
> [@One And Only Wanderers](#): > > WHat are the odds of Crouch being offered a basketball contract after the match 😉 Maybe they’ll offer to put him on “American Idol” instead. Frankly, with his build, he really doesn’t look athletic enough to be a basketball star, either. He’s medium to short as an American basketball player (okay, just medium). Guys his size are often very strong shoulders, etc. He’s just an oddity. But I love to watch him play and it will be interesting to see if our defense can figure out a way to stop him. What’s most interesting to me about Crouch is that he’s not just good in the air, he’s actually got a nice touch and shot, from what little I’ve seen, admittedly not much and mostly highlights. ---
**Author:** ![Ithaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Ithaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ithaka)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-vs-england-may-28/305587/6 "2005-05-26T13:45:51Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > The knock on AJ has been the number of his goals which have come from the penalty spot. True, but they’re mostly penalties he’s won himself. He seems to be good at scaring the defense into them, and not just against rubbish teams. Besides, it doesn’t really matter where the goals come from! ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-vs-england-may-28/305587/7 "2005-05-26T14:05:43Z")
> [@Ithaka](#): > > True, but they’re mostly penalties he’s won himself. He seems to be good at scaring the defense into them, and not just against rubbish teams. Besides, it doesn’t really matter where the goals come from! Fair enough. I just don’t like it when someone gets a lot of goals from penalties that were “created” by other players. ---
**Author:** ![Ithaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Ithaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ithaka)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-vs-england-may-28/305587/8 "2005-05-26T14:25:18Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Fair enough. I just don’t like it when someone gets a lot of goals from penalties that were “created” by other players. I agree. It’s hard (for me, anyway) to find stats on this, but out of AJ’s 21 goals, 11 came from penalties. This [article](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,15049-1577534,00.html) talks of 8 penalties that he won and converted himself and I can add at least one other from the end of the season. Therefore he only got 1 or 2 penalties that were created by others. I really rate him, although I’m club biased. He’s definitely not a diver as the article says. He’s quick for a short, bald fella, and he creates his own goals. ---
**Author:** ![Stringer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Stringer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringer)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-vs-england-may-28/305587/9 "2005-05-26T14:34:54Z")
I’m going to the this match, and I’m pretty excited about it. The rosters for the US side [have been posted](http://www.ussoccer.com/news/fullstory.sps?iNewsid=176060), and it seems to be a pretty decent lineup. I don’t know how much time the bigger-name guys will see, but I’m looking forward to it nonetheless. I heard a rumor that Beckham might play to resolve a yellow card issue. Anyone know if there’s any truth to this? ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-vs-england-may-28/305587/10 "2005-05-26T16:12:15Z")
> [@micahjn](#): > > I’m going to the this match, and I’m pretty excited about it. The rosters for the US side [have been posted](http://www.ussoccer.com/news/fullstory.sps?iNewsid=176060), and it seems to be a pretty decent lineup. I don’t know how much time the bigger-name guys will see, but I’m looking forward to it nonetheless. > > I heard a rumor that Beckham might play to resolve a yellow card issue. Anyone know if there’s any truth to this? That USSF article shows the first nineteen he’s called into camp, but I’d be surprised if Gregg Berhalter, for example, makes the final group or if he does, gets any minutes. At least I kind of hope not. Anyway, there are a few guys likely to miss the game due to injury, or other commitments. Beasley, Mastroeni and Mulrooney for injuries, off the top of my head, Lewis is playing for PNE in the playoffs for the Championship and Gooch’s team is in a UEFA playoff, so he’s out as well. Rumor has it that Beasley is training with the team but that was a pretty nasty looking knee injury he took so I’d be surprised to see him on the field this weekend. Net, what I’m seeing is that about 7 of our typical starting eleven will be there and available. How they’re used will be another question. ---
**Author:** ![mittu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@mittu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mittu)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-vs-england-may-28/305587/11 "2005-05-26T16:17:52Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Will the English even watch this? It is being shown on Sky Sports so it should be on in most pubs. Nobody is really bothered about the game in England, it’s just a mess about with a second (third?) rate squad. It should be fun though and might give some of the guys on the fringe of the full squad time to shine. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-vs-england-may-28/305587/12 "2005-05-26T16:20:44Z")
It’s disappointing though, from an American point of view, that England isn’t sending more of their first line players. I wonder if I can still get tickets? ---
**Author:** ![Tuco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tuco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuco)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-vs-england-may-28/305587/13 "2005-05-26T16:31:45Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > So, any thoughts? Will the English even watch this? Didn’t even realise it was happenning! From what little I can find on the BBC website it seems Gary Neville, Paul Robinson, John Terry, Wayne Bridge, Rio Ferdinand, Jamie Carragher, Ledley King, Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard, Kieron Dyer and Wayne Rooney definetly won’t be playing. Beckham and Owen may do if Real Madrid release them. I doubt it’ll be on English terrestrial TV, it’ll probably be pay-per-view as the American FA (or whatever the American football association is called) will decide who to sell the TV rights to. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-vs-england-may-28/305587/14 "2005-05-26T16:36:21Z")
They ran a bunch of adds during the FA Cup final trying to drum up the big England v Colombia friendly in NYC next week. I’d not pay a dime to watch England’s second/third team thrash Colombia. The USA B squad destroyed Colombia a month or so ago in a friendly (3-0). Also, I think that Owen will not be released since they have one more match remaining, but Becks is out for discipline from the last match so he’s theoretically available but already starting to hem and haw on it. I doubt he’ll come over unless Posh wants to do some shopping on the Miracle Mile. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-vs-england-may-28/305587/15 "2005-05-26T16:50:19Z")
This is what I’ve been able to find regards England call ups: Robert Green - Norwich City Scott Carson - Liverpool David James - Manchester City Sol Campbell - Arsenal Matthew Upson - Birmingham City Wes Brown - Manchester United Gary Neville - Manchester United Ashley Cole - Arsenal Phil Neville - Manchester United Glen Johnson - Chelsea Jermaine Jenas - Newcastle United Stewart Downing - Middlesbrough David Beckham - Real Madrid Michael Carrick - Tottenham Hotspur Joe Cole - Chelsea Owen Hargreaves - Bayern Munich Shaun Wright-Phillips - Manchester City Alan Smith - Manchester United Michael Owen - Real Madrid Peter Crouch - Southampton Andy Johnson - Crystal Palace Jermain Defoe - Tottenham Hotspur I know that SWP has been pulled for injury. Owens and Becks as mentioned are very doubtful. Don’t know for sure who else has been pulled from that list, but I know a couple of others younger guys have been added in as replacements, just have to research a bit to find out who… ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-vs-england-may-28/305587/16 "2005-05-26T17:35:55Z")
Beckham will not be present for the first match, but [will for the second](http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/4570057.stm). ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-vs-england-may-28/305587/17 "2005-05-26T17:44:51Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Beckham will not be present for the first match, but [will for the second](http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/4570057.stm). Okay, so Posh would rather shop in NYC than Chicago. Fair play. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-vs-england-may-28/305587/18 "2005-05-26T18:01:12Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > They ran a bunch of adds during the FA Cup final trying to drum up the big England v Colombia friendly in NYC next week. I’d not pay a dime to watch England’s second/third team thrash Colombia. The USA B squad destroyed Colombia a month or so ago in a friendly (3-0). It might’ve been closer to the USA C squad. I think there was something like 6 players getting their first cap. The thing I’m most excited about is a healthy John O’Brien. Here’s hoping he regains his WC '02 form. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-vs-england-may-28/305587/19 "2005-05-26T18:53:50Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > It might’ve been closer to the USA C squad. I think there was something like 6 players getting their first cap. > > The thing I’m most excited about is a healthy John O’Brien. Here’s hoping he regains his WC '02 form. Busch Mullan Marshall (goal) Kotschau Albright Mastroeni (Capt.) (Borchers, 86) Dempsey Ralston (Gaven, 76) Mathis (goal) (Twellman, 68) Noonan (goal) (Martino, 83) Johnson (Ching, 71) Of those, only Eddie Johnson and Pablo Mastroeni could be said to be a regular on the regular national team at this point. Mathis was but is past his prime. Dempsey looks to be a regular in the future if his form holds. Pat Noonan is making some noise in that direction but has his detractors. So, yeah, I could agree with C-side there. It was maybe the all MLS A squad, though, young comers excepted (Adu, Gaven, etc). Oh, and I’ll believe that JOB is healthy when I see him on the pitch for more than 20 minutes with my own eyes! ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-vs-england-may-28/305587/20 "2005-05-27T12:57:27Z")
Some player updates: England: Downing looks to be out with a knee injury suffered in practice (don’t know how serious) USA: Eddie Johnson out with turf toe, could miss multiple WCQs as well. This really sucks! JOB experiencing tightness in his left calf. Told you not to count on him until you see him on the field! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-vs-england-may-28/305587.md?page=2)