# Usage: How did "out of pocket" get its current meaning? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 7, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-how-did-out-of-pocket-get-its-current-meaning/829124 "2019-02-07T15:34:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-how-did-out-of-pocket-get-its-current-meaning/829124/1 "2019-02-07T15:34:29Z")
My understanding of the phrase “I’m out of pocket” is “Whatever I decide to do right now, I have to pay for with my personal funds, because my employer won’t cover it.” In the last couple of years, I’ve noticed that people don’t use it for that meaning but instead use “I’ll be out of pocket” to mean “I’ll be unavailable or unreachable.” I’m looking for an understanding of this phrase and this usage. Am I wrong about the original meaning of the phrase? When did the latter usage arise? How did it come to have that meaning? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-how-did-out-of-pocket-get-its-current-meaning/829124/2 "2019-02-07T15:37:36Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > In the last couple of years, I’ve noticed that people don’t use it for that meaning but instead use “I’ll be out of pocket” to mean “I’ll be unavailable or unreachable.” This is not correct and anybody using it in this way would be an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-how-did-out-of-pocket-get-its-current-meaning/829124/3 "2019-02-07T15:39:56Z")
I’ve heard it ever since 1999. Nowadays I rarely see or hear the full phrase but I see “OOP” quite often in the context of work. One guess is that if you use the abbreviation “OOO” for out of office it looks like you are trying to spell a word with your Cheerios. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-how-did-out-of-pocket-get-its-current-meaning/829124/4 "2019-02-07T15:45:04Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > My understanding of the phrase “I’m out of pocket” is “Whatever I decide to do right now, I have to pay for with my personal funds, because my employer won’t cover it.” > > In the last couple of years, I’ve noticed that people don’t use it for that meaning but instead use “I’ll be out of pocket” to mean “I’ll be unavailable or unreachable.” > > I’m looking for an understanding of this phrase and this usage. Am I wrong about the original meaning of the phrase? When did the latter usage arise? How did it come to have that meaning? According to this thread ([expressions - Where did the "unavailable" meaning of "Out of Pocket" come from? - English Language & Usage Stack Exchange](https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/68729/where-did-the-unavailable-meaning-of-out-of-pocket-come-from)), O Henry was one of the first to write it down, back in the early 1900s. They don’t mention the origin, though. **Mr Shine** , you’re obviously incorrect, since it really is current usage and has been for at least 100 years. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-how-did-out-of-pocket-get-its-current-meaning/829124/5 "2019-02-07T15:49:33Z")
It may be a stretch, but I wonder if the “unavailable” use of the term has any relation to American football. When a quarterback is “in the pocket,” he’s setting up to pass the ball, and the offense’s play is (more or less) proceeding as planned. If the defense forces the quarterback to scramble “out of the pocket,” the play has started to break down, and he may not be able to pass as intended. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-how-did-out-of-pocket-get-its-current-meaning/829124/6 "2019-02-07T15:51:33Z")
It’s also a common phrase in the US health insurance industry: ["Out of pocket maximum"](https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/out-of-pocket-maximum-limit/)represents the maximum amount in combined deductibles and co-insurance payments you’ll have to make in a year for covered in-network services. I’ve never heard that “out-of-pocket” is just limited to employer/employee expenses. A contractor might say “If I upgrade the materials, I’ll be out-of-pocket for the extra cost.” But I’ve never heard it to mean “I’ll be unavailable or unreachable.” That’s probably some new corporate-speak thing that’s trending. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-how-did-out-of-pocket-get-its-current-meaning/829124/7 "2019-02-07T15:52:22Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > In the last couple of years, I’ve noticed that people don’t use it for that meaning but instead use “I’ll be out of pocket” to mean “I’ll be unavailable or unreachable.” Huh. I have never heard this usage of the term. Good to know in case I come across it. I wonder if it’s regional/generational/etc. And, yeah, first two things that came to mind were the football use of the term and the musical use (e.g. “playing in the pocket”), but I can’t quite see how they would be related. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-how-did-out-of-pocket-get-its-current-meaning/829124/8 "2019-02-07T15:55:16Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > It’s also a common phrase in the US health insurance industry: ["Out of pocket maximum"](https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/out-of-pocket-maximum-limit/)represents the maximum amount in combined deductibles and co-insurance payments you’ll have to make in a year for covered in-network services. > > I’ve never heard that “out-of-pocket” is just limited to employer/employee expenses. A contractor might say “If I upgrade the materials, I’ll be out-of-pocket for the extra cost.” But I’ve never heard it to mean “I’ll be unavailable or unreachable.” That’s probably some new corporate-speak thing that’s trending. Yes, I didn’t mean to limit it to the employer scenario. It generally means “I’m responsible for the expenses.” > [@pulykamell](#): > > Huh. I have never heard this usage of the term. Good to know in case I come across it. I wonder if it’s regional/generational/etc. > > And, yeah, first two things that came to mind were the football use of the term and the musical use (e.g. “playing in the pocket”), but I can’t quite see how they would be related. I’m skeptical that the football and musical meanings are related, but I guess it’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-how-did-out-of-pocket-get-its-current-meaning/829124/9 "2019-02-07T15:57:37Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Huh. I have never heard this usage of the term. Good to know in case I come across it. I wonder if it’s regional/generational/etc. FWIW, since you and I live in the same city, I’d guess that I’ve heard it used in that way (though not particularly frequently) for at least the past decade or so. The context is always along the lines of “I’ll be out of pocket for the rest of the week,” and understood to mean, “I won’t be in the office / I won’t be reachable / I’ll be busy.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-how-did-out-of-pocket-get-its-current-meaning/829124/10 "2019-02-07T16:01:02Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > FWIW, since you and I live in the same city, I’d guess that I’ve heard it used in that way (though not particularly frequently) for at least the past decade or so. The context is always along the lines of “I’ll be out of pocket for the rest of the week,” and understood to mean, “I won’t be in the office / I won’t be reachable / I’ll be busy.” OK, so it’s the people I hang around with. Is it more corporate speak, maybe? Or is it also used in regular casual conversation, too? I mean, by people who may not have a corporate type of background. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-how-did-out-of-pocket-get-its-current-meaning/829124/11 "2019-02-07T16:03:08Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > OK, so it’s the people I hang around with. Is it more corporate speak, maybe? Or is it also used in regular casual conversation, too? I mean, by people who may not have a corporate type of background. I’m going to go with the “corporate speak” hypothesis, since I work in advertising, and I think that when I’ve heard it used, it’s nearly always been at work. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-how-did-out-of-pocket-get-its-current-meaning/829124/12 "2019-02-07T16:03:51Z")
I also started hearing it from corporate types, but it has spread to office work in general, it seems to me. ---
**Author:** ![Borborygmi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/borborygmi/32/217_2.png) [@Borborygmi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borborygmi)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-how-did-out-of-pocket-get-its-current-meaning/829124/13 "2019-02-07T16:12:39Z")
FWIW: I’ve only been aware of the ‘new’ usage somewhat recently when our company started partnering with another company in the Midwest. In my limited experience it hasn’t been used in the first person and is somewhat jealously invoked to refer to an employee who has broken the shackles of being reachable for the time-being. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-how-did-out-of-pocket-get-its-current-meaning/829124/14 "2019-02-07T16:25:24Z")
I’ve only ever heard or read “out of pocket” to mean something related to expense accounting, never to mean “out of office/unavailable”, where “pocket” doesn’t have any context at all. Very strange usage to carry over, am very surprised this usage is on the rise - is it a regionalism? The way “waiting on” to mean “waiting for” (awaiting a person or a dependency) originated in the American South(?) and spread around to my area in the Northeast in the past 10-15 years? ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-how-did-out-of-pocket-get-its-current-meaning/829124/15 "2019-02-07T16:39:13Z")
[here is a discussion from 2011](https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/28790/out-of-pocket) - it seems it originated as a Southern regionalism (and also notes the early O Henry refererence), and is apparently spreading. I’ve heard it used in Kansas City (which is a semi-southern city), but couldn’t say when I first noticed it (not a native but been here a long time - the meaning has always seemed obvious from context). ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-how-did-out-of-pocket-get-its-current-meaning/829124/16 "2019-02-07T16:44:08Z")
Here’s another cite: [https://www.visualthesaurus.com/cm/wc/the-many-meanings-of-out-of-pocket/](https://www.visualthesaurus.com/cm/wc/the-many-meanings-of-out-of-pocket/) Here’s the money quote: > [@](#): > > A primarily American meaning of “out of pocket,” “to be unavailable,” traces to a 1908 O. Henry story, the OED says: “Just now she is out of pocket. And I shall find her as soon as I can.” The Dictionary of American Slang says it first appeared in the mid-1970s: “I’m out of pocket for a bit, but I’ll get back at ya.” I also doubt it came from football, because to my ear, the usage would be “out of the pocket.” I agree that that’s not likely related to the musical usage, where playing in the pocket means, I believe, right on the beat. I agree that it’s mostly corporate speak where I hear it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-how-did-out-of-pocket-get-its-current-meaning/829124/17 "2019-02-07T16:50:50Z")
Oh, wow. That goes back way farther than I would have thought. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-how-did-out-of-pocket-get-its-current-meaning/829124/18 "2019-02-07T17:14:45Z")
Never heard of it in the “out of office” sense and I’m super surprised its origins are that old! Makes perfect sense to me in the financial sense - is some other entity paying for this or do I have to pull the money out of my pocket to pay? Before I read **RitterSport** ’s post I would have thought maybe it’s used in modern times to refer to people working from their phones (in their pockets) while out of the office. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-how-did-out-of-pocket-get-its-current-meaning/829124/19 "2019-02-07T17:19:02Z")
I had always assumed the football connection, but **RitterSport** ’s point about that more likely developing as “out of the pocket” make sense. I wonder if it’s related conceptually to the idea of being _in someone’s pocket_ in the sense of being under their control or influence. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-how-did-out-of-pocket-get-its-current-meaning/829124/20 "2019-02-07T17:19:38Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I also doubt it came from football, because to my ear, the usage would be “out of the pocket.” Additionally, if it dates back to 1908 (and possibly before), that’d also likely disprove any connection to football, as the concept of the “pocket” for the passer almost undoubtedly came about later than that. The forward pass only became legal in American football at about the same time as the O. Henry writing. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-how-did-out-of-pocket-get-its-current-meaning/829124.md?page=2)