# Usage of Japanese "-san" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 30, 2004, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-japanese-san/252815 "2004-06-30T02:05:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-japanese-san/252815/41 "2004-07-02T03:54:02Z")
> [@tremorviolet](#): > > Yeah, I know all the old guys at sci.lang.japan would agree. (particularly Charles Eicher, he’s obsessed with the idea that manga and anime are _ruining_ Japanese culture) But, I think it depends on the manga you read. The sci-fi stuff gets a little weird but I mostly read adult romance manga that takes place in modern day Japan. And the mangaka usually strive to make it realistic. I don’t read usenet but I don’t think the issue is that the Japanese in mangas is _bad_; it isn’t. The thing, though, is that they’re written for a native audience. When you start learning with mangas early, most cultural references and connotations are lost on you. Essentially, it’s very difficult for a beginner to put the dialogue in context. That’s where you get people wondering if addressing teachers, in school, as -chan is common. Notwithstanding **cckerberos** ’s school, it isn’t. That being said, “live” material, meaning stuff that’s actually written for native speakers, is ten times better than textbook. If all you use are textbook when learning a foreign language, you eventually only become really good at reading textbooks. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-japanese-san/252815/42 "2004-07-02T04:19:55Z")
> [@Vlad/Igor](#): > > In September, a post-doc will come to work with us for a year. I (with a lowly B.S.) will be showing her where things are in the lab, and possibly one or two procedures/assays she may not be familiar with. I have to disagree with **cckerberos** on this. _Lastname_- **san** should suffice for a colleague, especially if the age difference is less than, say, 10 years. I’m a postdoc and it would feel weird to be called _-sensei_ by a co-worker. (Though I’ve gotten used to vendors calling me that.) ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-japanese-san/252815/43 "2004-07-02T04:59:20Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > I have to disagree with **cckerberos** on this. _Lastname_- **san** should suffice for a colleague, especially if the age difference is less than, say, 10 years. I’m a postdoc and it would feel weird to be called _-sensei_ by a co-worker. (Though I’ve gotten used to vendors calling me that.) You’re right… I misread the question and thought the person in question was a medical doctor. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-japanese-san/252815/44 "2004-07-02T05:46:15Z")
There’s another odd little twist that should be mentioned. You can use _-san_ when you’re talking with someone within your ‘group’, or with someone outside your ‘group’. But when talking with an outsider _about_ someone within your group, you don’t use _-san_. Example: My manager (inside my group) is Kawamura, and our client (outside my group) is Fujino. It’s correct for me to say: “Kawamura-san, did you get a call from Fujino-san?” and “Fujino-san, here’s the latest sales report.” but not “Fujino-san, Kawamura-san needs you to call him.” Even if Kawamura is a 1000-year-old CEO ninja master with 5 PhD’s and is elder brother to the emperor, because he’s part of my group, the correct way to say this would be, “Fujino-san, Kawamura needs you to call him.” There are all sorts of other cases similar to this, where the word or form of address used when talking about a member of your family or company is completely different from what you would use otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-japanese-san/252815/45 "2004-07-02T20:10:02Z")
> [@RindaRinda](#): > > ::sigh:: The diminutive “chan.” There are some women and girls who put “chan” onto everything. They’ll make “chan”-ending nicknames for male or female adults they like (I’m “Rin-chan” to a couple of girls), or food, e.g., “ame-chan” for candy. I’ve even heard “gobo-chan” (gobo is a kind of nasty root vegetable). Let’s not forget “wan-chan” for dog (“wan” is “bow wow” in Japanese), “nyan-chan” for cat (“nya” or “nyao” is “meow” in Japanese). > > Worse yet, this verbal tic is infectious. Gobo or burdock root is yummy yummy yummy!! :wally ---
**Author:** ![Vlad\_Igor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Vlad\_Igor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vlad_Igor)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-japanese-san/252815/46 "2004-07-02T21:50:13Z")
Thanks for the advice; _lastname_-san it shall be. Arigato. [bows at a precise 20 deg angle] Vlad/Igor [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-japanese-san/252815.md?page=2)