# Usage of the term "Northern Lights" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 24, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-the-term-northern-lights/726064 "2015-07-24T16:09:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lalaith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@lalaith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalaith)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-the-term-northern-lights/726064/1 "2015-07-24T16:09:56Z")
So last night I was with a friend from North Dakota. She was born in 1931. Born, raised and lived her life in North Dakota until she moved to Florida in her retirement. We were talking about the aurora borealis which I’ve never seen but want to while she’s seen it. She then began talking about the “Northern Lights.” That term is currently synonymous for the aurora. But as she spoke it became clear that it was not to her. To her, the aurora borealis is something she only saw one night of her life. While “Northern Lights” were something she commonly saw in the winter. She specified the Northern Lights only happened in the winter. She said they were only white with no other color. She did her hands in a straight upward movement as if describing columns in the sky. What the heck is she talking about? I’ve searched Northern Lights and all that comes up is it being synonymous with the aurora. Is this some archaic or regional use for the term “Northern Lights” referring to some different astronomical phenomenon? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-the-term-northern-lights/726064/2 "2015-07-24T18:24:33Z")
Although not secured by fences or guards or particularly ill-tempered badgers, the border between the USA and Canada is modestly illuminated, and has been since just before the end of WWII. This was part of a hushed-up USA initiative intended to deter southward migration of European Jewish refugees, whom Canada offered sanctuary from German persecution but little else. Winter atmospheric conditions from eastern Montana to the westernmost parts of Minnesota will sometimes reflect, and even amplify, the low-voltage scalar halide lamps used on the border, to the point where they are quite visible for up to about a hundred miles. Localized fog, combined with topographical formations, will further enhance the effect–shading it in some places while focusing it in others–so that at times there appear to be columns of white light. One can “chase” the columns in an attempt to locate their source but, like rainbows, they will seem to move relative to the observer. Americans who first witnessed this phenomenon were completely ignorant of the actual cause, but satisfied themselves, generally, that it was harmless. Viewed from south of the Canada/USA border, they became known to locals as simply, “northern lights”. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-the-term-northern-lights/726064/3 "2015-07-24T18:53:44Z")
> [@](#): > > low-voltage scalar halide lamps What the hell does this mean? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-the-term-northern-lights/726064/4 "2015-07-24T18:54:41Z")
Seriously? That’s the only problem you have with that yarn? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-the-term-northern-lights/726064/5 "2015-07-24T19:21:13Z")
Well, this is GQ, you know… ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-the-term-northern-lights/726064/6 "2015-07-24T19:34:27Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > What the hell does this mean? I could feel the breeze down here in Florida… ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-the-term-northern-lights/726064/7 "2015-07-24T19:40:05Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Well, this is GQ, you know… Yes. Mea culpa. It was naughty and I couldn’t help myself. Apologies to all (sincerely) for the distraction. I won’t do it again for a very long time. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-the-term-northern-lights/726064/8 "2015-07-24T20:05:46Z")
> [@lalaith](#): > > SoWhile “Northern Lights” were something she commonly saw in the winter. She specified the Northern Lights only happened in the winter. She said they were only white with no other color. She did her hands in a straight upward movement as if describing columns in the sky. From relatively southern latitudes, the aurora can look exactly like that, actually - vertical stripes, with very little color. I’ve seen it myself. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-the-term-northern-lights/726064/9 "2015-07-24T20:30:06Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > Seriously? That’s the only problem you have with that yarn? I always thought they _did_ use ill-tempered badgers in guarding borders, until I recently learned that they were all employed, in early post-WWII days, in powering message boards. Apparently it’s a recent innovation to use hamsters for that purpose. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-the-term-northern-lights/726064/10 "2015-07-24T21:16:18Z")
Northern lights is the local term from where I’ve lived in Minnesota and South Dakota. They were auroras only if you got yourself some education and wanted to sound all highfalutin. As far as seeing the auroras only once, it might be because lately they’ve been quite inactive for a long time until recently. Last month they were directly overhead and even towards the south of the zenith, so I guess they’re not legally “northern” lights - maybe that’s her distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-the-term-northern-lights/726064/11 "2015-07-24T21:59:16Z")
> [@lalaith](#): > > So last night I was with a friend from North Dakota. She was born in 1931. Born, raised and lived her life in North Dakota until she moved to Florida in her retirement. And there’s your answer! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Meme\_Chose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Meme\_Chose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meme_Chose)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-the-term-northern-lights/726064/12 "2015-07-24T23:09:38Z")
Atmospheric ice crystals can form columns or pillars of light extending upward from a light source. Maybe that is what she is describing. ---
**Author:** ![lalaith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@lalaith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalaith)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-the-term-northern-lights/726064/13 "2015-07-25T00:16:28Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > Although not secured by fences or guards or particularly ill-tempered badgers, the border between the USA and Canada is modestly illuminated, and has been since just before the end of WWII. This was part of a hushed-up USA initiative intended to deter southward migration of European Jewish refugees, whom Canada offered sanctuary from German persecution but little else. Winter atmospheric conditions from eastern Montana to the westernmost parts of Minnesota will sometimes reflect, and even amplify, the low-voltage scalar halide lamps used on the border, to the point where they are quite visible for up to about a hundred miles. Localized fog, combined with topographical formations, will further enhance the effect–shading it in some places while focusing it in others–so that at times there appear to be columns of white light. One can “chase” the columns in an attempt to locate their source but, like rainbows, they will seem to move relative to the observer. Americans who first witnessed this phenomenon were completely ignorant of the actual cause, but satisfied themselves, generally, that it was harmless. Viewed from south of the Canada/USA border, they became known to locals as simply, “northern lights”. Expecting me to believe they had halide lamps back then was your downfall. Next time, don’t be so specific. Or maybe look up the type of lighting back then. Otherwise, a good yarn. And next time keep it out of General Questions. You’re lucky you don’t get an official warning as you just broke Rule #2 for this forum. ---
**Author:** ![lalaith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@lalaith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalaith)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-the-term-northern-lights/726064/14 "2015-07-25T00:20:04Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > From relatively southern latitudes, the aurora can look exactly like that, actually - vertical stripes, with very little color. I’ve seen it myself. Possibly this is what she saw and called “Northern Lights.” > [@JohnGalt](#): > > Northern lights is the local term from where I’ve lived in Minnesota and South Dakota. They were auroras only if you got yourself some education and wanted to sound all highfalutin. > > As far as seeing the auroras only once, it might be because lately they’ve been quite inactive for a long time until recently. Last month they were directly overhead and even towards the south of the zenith, so I guess they’re not legally “northern” lights - maybe that’s her distinction. No. She knew what the aurora was. She definitely considered this distinct from the aurora. > [@Meme\_Chose](#): > > Atmospheric ice crystals can form columns or pillars of light extending upward from a light source. Maybe that is what she is describing. Another possibility. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-the-term-northern-lights/726064/15 "2015-07-25T00:20:38Z")
It was the “scalar” that tripped my BSometer. But you’re right, halide was a long way in the future even from the 1950s. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-the-term-northern-lights/726064/16 "2015-07-25T02:15:50Z")
The aurora can have many different appearances. Pillars of light, too faint to show any visible color, are one of the most common. Rarer is the colored curtains effect you see so much in pictures. It might be that she mistakenly thought that only the curtains were true aurorae. For what it’s worth, I’ve also seen an aurora that looked like a green amoeba changing shape in the sky, one that had the whole sky changing colors with an occasional white “windshield wiper” line sweeping quickly across the sky, a few with indistinct sky glow (sometimes red and/or green, sometimes white) off to the north, and once or twice an arch of light across the sky. Sometimes it transitions from one to another: Start with pillars to the north, then the pillars split up and shift east and west, then the pillars reach high enough to combine into an arch overhead, then the arch develops more details until it looks like the curtains. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-the-term-northern-lights/726064/17 "2015-07-25T03:47:03Z")
> [@lalaith](#): > > Possibly this is what she saw and called “Northern Lights.” > She knew what the aurora was. She definitely considered this distinct from the aurora. She was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-the-term-northern-lights/726064/18 "2015-07-25T07:02:38Z")
^^^^That.^^^^ ETA:No need to make a big deal about it, though. She’s 84 years old, and harming no one with her wrongness. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-the-term-northern-lights/726064/19 "2015-07-25T07:43:59Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > It was the “scalar” that tripped my BSometer. I understood they had “scalar” doohickies all the way back in the 20’s… ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-the-term-northern-lights/726064/20 "2015-07-25T13:47:21Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@lalaith](#): > > And next time keep it out of General Questions. You’re lucky you don’t get an official warning as you just broke Rule #2 for this forum. Let us mods do the modding, please. If you think a post is inappropriate, report it. No warning issued. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usage-of-the-term-northern-lights/726064.md?page=2)