# USDA Food Guides **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 16, 2000, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usda-food-guides/7492 "2000-02-16T21:39:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SoMoMom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@SoMoMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoMoMom)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2000, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usda-food-guides/7492/1 "2000-02-16T21:39:00Z")
I tried finding what I was looking for on the USDA’s site. What a mess! I don’t have that much time to devote sorting through their articles. I’m wanting to know the history (when, why and what) of the USDA’s nutrition guides. I know that when I was in elementary school it was 4 groups, by high school it had become 5 and sometime since then it has become a pyramid. How did it all begin? Also while I’m on the subject does anyone know of teaching guides that teach the food guide as it appears today, but does not bias toward meat and dairy, rather using proteins and calcium sources in general? Where can I get some? When my dairy-allergic daughter’s first grade class studied nutrition she was convinced she was never going to grow without cow’s milk. I hate having to tell her what she learned in school is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2000, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usda-food-guides/7492/2 "2000-02-16T22:17:00Z")
Here’s something that might be useful: [http://www.nutrispeak.com/veganpyramid.htm](http://www.nutrispeak.com/veganpyramid.htm) ---
**Author:** ![SoMoMom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@SoMoMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoMoMom)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2000, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usda-food-guides/7492/3 "2000-02-17T01:48:00Z")
Thank you! That is the closest yet. I’d really love one that includes meat and alternatives and cow’s milk with soy, rice, and nut milk and all of the other stuff mentioned on this one. I’m not going to find it am I? But thanks! I won’t lose this one in case. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2000, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usda-food-guides/7492/4 "2000-02-17T04:30:00Z")
The USDA has issued vegetarian guidelines. But as to their normal guidelines I think you’ll find that they don’t shill for the meat and dairy industries nearly as much as your vegan friends will tell you: [http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/dga/dguide95.html](http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/dga/dguide95.html) > [@](#): > > Vegetarian diets are consistent with the Dietary Guidelines for Americans and can meet Recommended Dietary Allowances for nutrients. You can get enough protein from a vegetarian diet as long as the variety and amounts of foods consumed are adequate. Meat, fish, and poultry are major contributors of iron, zinc, and B vitamins in most American diets, and vegetarians should pay special attention to these nutrients. > > Vegans eat only food of plant origin. Because animal products are the only food sources of vitamin B12, vegans must supplement their diets with a source of this vitamin. In addition, vegan diets, particularly those of children, require care to ensure adequacy of vitamin D and calcium, which most Americans obtain from milk products. ---
**Author:** ![SoMoMom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@SoMoMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoMoMom)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2000, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usda-food-guides/7492/5 "2000-02-17T20:08:00Z")
Whoa! Look what I ran across! It still doesn’t answer my questions, but since it sort of relates I thought I’d post it. [http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/01/10/MN101232.DTL&type=science](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/01/10/MN101232.DTL&type=science) Johnny Angel, I don’t have any vegan friends. Apparently what they are teaching (and from the posters it appears to be that way), is that the only way to get calcium in your diet is to eat dairy products which is extremely untrue. I just wanted to offer my daughter’s teachers a more accurate teaching tool. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2000, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usda-food-guides/7492/6 "2000-02-17T21:57:00Z")
You might also look at sites dealing with the Mediterranean and Asian dietary guidelines. They are related to the US ones, but put less emphasis on dairy and red meat. However, the ones I looked at didn’t have very good graphics and the Asian ones, inexplicably, didn’t really talk about soy products as replacements for meat/dairy. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2000, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usda-food-guides/7492/7 "2000-02-18T00:20:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Johnny Angel, I don’t have any vegan friends. I didn’t mean it literally. =) My point is that we should be skeptical of claims that the USDA recomendations are a conspiracy of special interests. They do listen to special interests, mind you, but among those are not only the traditional agricultural industries, but also the new vegetarian industries as well as racial groups who have a strong case against the implicit assumption that everyone has the same metabolism. The system has improved greatly from the one we were taught, and will continue to improve. I’ve seen a number of people who in investigating special nutritional requirements who have come under the influence of quacks who, among other unfounded claims, will claim that there is a government conspiracy to keep the truth about nutrition from the public. It’s advisable to be skeptical about any such claims. Check out QuackWatch sometime. It’s a nice source of advice on what to watch out for: [www.quackwatch.com](http://www.quackwatch.com) But the alternate pyramid that **cher3** cited does take as its source authors recommended by the USDA’s own website. You’ll probably want to look into that, and also the rest of USDA’s site for useful guides like this: [http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/pubs/bibs/gen/vegbr.htm](http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/pubs/bibs/gen/vegbr.htm) (I don’t know about the rest, but I’ve eaten of recipies in the Moosewood and found them to be delicious and fulfilling even for an omnivore) As to how to translate all this to a school’s lunch program, I don’t know. The government brochure on subject recommends that schools do something about it, but doesn’t say what exactly. ---
**Author:** ![SoMoMom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@SoMoMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoMoMom)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2000, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usda-food-guides/7492/8 "2000-02-18T16:06:00Z")
That QuackWatch looks great. I’ll have to keep that in mind. Except they list the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine as questionable. I think questionable is a strong word. Biased I think is a better word. I haven’t read anything by them that is completely untrue. They just tend to stretch any evidence to make their vegan ways seem the cure for all ills.