# Use a mass spectrometer to find Coke & KFC secret recipe?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-a-mass-spectrometer-to-find-coke-kfc-secret-recipe/590937
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [July 31, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-a-mass-spectrometer-to-find-coke-kfc-secret-recipe/590937 "2011-07-31T17:34:57Z")
**Posts on this page:** 11
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-a-mass-spectrometer-to-find-coke-kfc-secret-recipe/590937/1 "2011-07-31T17:34:57Z")
This has probably been asked, but could you do this? I’m sure if you could someone would have so I’m guessing you can’t. Is it because it could only ID the very basic, elemental aspects of them (i.e. Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen etc.) and trying to extrapolate the actual complex compounds (spices, flavors etc.) from these would be next to impossible?
Is it also a legal thing? Would it be considered illegal to essentially ‘reverse engineer’ and copy a popular food’s secret ingredients?
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### Author:  [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-a-mass-spectrometer-to-find-coke-kfc-secret-recipe/590937/2 "2011-07-31T17:40:34Z")
I believe it’s not just a matter of getting the right amount of the right ingredients, but also a question of preparation and processing - something that would be hard to figure out.
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### Author:  [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-a-mass-spectrometer-to-find-coke-kfc-secret-recipe/590937/3 "2011-07-31T18:08:37Z")
The mass spec can even get some complex compounds, but it wouldn’t get all of them. The oligomeric caramelized compounds would be very difficult. As **Pinchester** says, it’s also a matter of the process.
Anyway, similar enough flavors can be made. The “secret” is in the marketing.
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### Author:  [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-a-mass-spectrometer-to-find-coke-kfc-secret-recipe/590937/4 "2011-07-31T18:15:46Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#):
>
> This has probably been asked, but could you do this? I’m sure if you could someone would have so I’m guessing you can’t. Is it because it could only ID the very basic, elemental aspects of them (i.e. Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen etc.) and trying to extrapolate the actual complex compounds (spices, flavors etc.) from these would be next to impossible?
>
> Is it also a legal thing? Would it be considered illegal to essentially ‘reverse engineer’ and copy a popular food’s secret ingredients?
I suspect that MS coupled with a separatory method (e.g. gas or liquid chromatography) and an appropriate database could give a rough estimate of the components. For instance, one component coming off the GC column might show a MS fragmentation pattern that matches thujone, which is found in sage. But did the good Colonel use rubbed sage or sage oil? Also, thujone is found not just in sage. It’s the naughty chemical in absinthe, and wikipedia tells us,
> [@](#):
>
> Thujone is found in a number of plants, such as arborvitae (genus Thuja, hence the derivation of the name), Nootka Cypress, some junipers, mugwort, oregano, common sage, tansy and wormwood, most notably grand wormwood (Artemisia absinthium), usually as a mix of isomers in a 1:2 ratio. It is also found in various species of mentha (mint).
We would need to search for chemicals that are found in sage and these other plants to determine which ones are used. Further complicating the matter is that different cultivars grown under different conditions will produce different ratios of identifier chemicals, and processing has a big impact on flavor as already mentioned, so it’s still going to be tricky.
If you are finally able to puzzle out all the ingredients, one might even be able to estimate where they’re sourced from by looking at isotope ratios with a sufficiently high res MS.
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### Author:  [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-a-mass-spectrometer-to-find-coke-kfc-secret-recipe/590937/5 "2011-07-31T18:36:45Z")
Saw a great cartoon in Playboy back in the early 70s. Two uniformed cops are carrying the Colonel out of one of his outlets in handcuffs, and one of the cops is saying to the other “I found out what’s in those seven herbs and spices.”
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-a-mass-spectrometer-to-find-coke-kfc-secret-recipe/590937/6 "2011-07-31T19:02:39Z")
You could reproduce the recipe to whatever precision you liked. But why would you bother? With a little bit of tinkering in the kitchen, you could come up with your own recipe that tastes even better (as, say, Pepsi did). The only reason Coke and KFC keep their recipes “secret” is that it makes better advertising copy that way.
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### Author:  [@mcgato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcgato)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-a-mass-spectrometer-to-find-coke-kfc-secret-recipe/590937/7 "2011-07-31T20:24:12Z")
I work in foods R&D and have worked on projects where we have run products through head space analysis with mass spec/gas chromatograph. It is almost impossible to pick out specific ingredients, and we can only get general direction on what types of compounds may have been used. One project was able to isolate a white pepper that worked better than the typical black peppers, but that was a lot of work. It would appear that it would be a good tool to figure out what competitors are doing, but the reality is much different.
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-a-mass-spectrometer-to-find-coke-kfc-secret-recipe/590937/8 "2011-07-31T21:41:25Z")
Coke’s flavoring is well known – a combination of cinnamon, vanilla, citrus, and tamarind. It’s just a matter of playing with the flavorings until you get something that matches.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-a-mass-spectrometer-to-find-coke-kfc-secret-recipe/590937/9 "2011-07-31T21:45:08Z")
> [@mcgato](#):
>
> I work in foods R&D and have worked on projects where we have run products through head space analysis with mass spec/gas chromatograph.
This is why I like this place. You ask a question of fact, and within hours, somebody with specific experience shows up with the answer.
Thank you.
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### Author:  [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)
#### Post date: [August 1, 2011, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-a-mass-spectrometer-to-find-coke-kfc-secret-recipe/590937/10 "2011-08-01T03:33:12Z")
And as Pitchmeister said, the process matters, too.
For example, french fries are basically potatoes, hot oil, & salt.
Yet people can obviously taste the difference between McDonalds, Burger King, Wendys, and local hamburger places.
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### Author:  [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)
#### Post date: [August 1, 2011, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-a-mass-spectrometer-to-find-coke-kfc-secret-recipe/590937/11 "2011-08-01T07:48:59Z")
An easier way to reverse engineer the recipes is to let someone else do it for you. Assuming the veracity of his claims, William Poundstone covers both recipes in Big Secrets.