# Use of "Dutch" to indicate something is unexpected or the wrong way round. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 31, 2002, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-dutch-to-indicate-something-is-unexpected-or-the-wrong-way-round/134686 "2002-10-31T11:09:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![G.Cornelius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@G.Cornelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G.Cornelius)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-dutch-to-indicate-something-is-unexpected-or-the-wrong-way-round/134686/1 "2002-10-31T11:09:01Z")
In the UK at least, the word “Dutch” is frequently used in phrases such as: _Dutch Courage_ - getting drunk in order to steel oneself for a task otherwise difficult to face. _Dutch Auction_ - an auction in which the selling price falls as the bidding progresses. Nobody has ever suggested to me that this is any kind of racial slur, but is it in any way related to the people of Holland? What is the origin of such phrases? ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-dutch-to-indicate-something-is-unexpected-or-the-wrong-way-round/134686/2 "2002-10-31T11:43:00Z")
and dont forget double dutch and a dutch date. Poor netherlanders. Anyway, I seem to remember that Dutch auctions actually originated in Holland so at least that has a simple explanation ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-dutch-to-indicate-something-is-unexpected-or-the-wrong-way-round/134686/3 "2002-10-31T12:37:20Z")
The derogatory implications of many such phrases derive from the Anglo-Dutch wars of the 17th century. Many have passed out of common usage. I like these definitions from, appropriately enough, _Brewer’s Dictionary of Phrase and Fable_: _Dutch bargain_: A bargain settled over drinks, the Dutch being formerly reputed to be steady drinkers. _Dutch courage_: (as above) The courage exerted by drink. The Dutch were considered heavy drinkers. From ‘steady’ to ‘heavy’ in no time at all. It does seem that the Dutch were regarded as a drinking nation by the British. Not now of course. The British have the reputation as drinkers while the Dutch all smoke dope. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-dutch-to-indicate-something-is-unexpected-or-the-wrong-way-round/134686/4 "2002-10-31T12:39:48Z")
AFAIK, “Dutch courage” was originally a racial slur, and dates from the time (in the Seventeenth Century) when the Netherlands was the principal rival to England in terms of Naval Power. It is based on the (then popular) stereotype of Netherlanders as consuming vast quantities of gin. The suggestion was that the needed to to this in order to fight the clean-limbed, courageous English lads with hearts of oak. Hurrah! ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-dutch-to-indicate-something-is-unexpected-or-the-wrong-way-round/134686/5 "2002-10-31T12:47:10Z")
Yes, Dutch auction is not derogatory but a traditional form of auction that began there. Many other phrases came into the language in the C17[sup]th[/sup] - C18[sup]th[/sup] at times when Britain and the Netherlands were at war, and have stayed ever since. ---
**Author:** ![li\_l\_Dickie\_Dirtz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2bfe46/32.png) [@li\_l\_Dickie\_Dirtz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/li_l_Dickie_Dirtz)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-dutch-to-indicate-something-is-unexpected-or-the-wrong-way-round/134686/6 "2002-10-31T16:25:49Z")
This is done all the time now, only it’s called reverse bidding. It’s done to lower the costs of contract labor, consumables, etc., in corporate USA.