# Use of \> greater than and \< less than in a non-mathematical sentence

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-greater-than-and-less-than-in-a-non-mathematical-sentence/926372>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [November 24, 2020, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-greater-than-and-less-than-in-a-non-mathematical-sentence/926372 "2020-11-24T20:49:40Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Didi44](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47c2d/32.png) [@Didi44](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Didi44)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-greater-than-and-less-than-in-a-non-mathematical-sentence/926372/1 "2020-11-24T20:49:40Z")

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The things that make you go hmmm… on the internet! 😃

This has got me seriously wondering about the use of the \> and \< in a non-mathematical sentence or indicator of quantity. Thinking about, it is the use of the symbol without the qualifier to the left non-sensical?

On another forum, the OP said that his/her use of the \> symbol followed by a number meant less than. For example, All my apples are \>1lb. I read this is all the apples are less than 1lb, but the OP claims that it means all the apples are greater than 1lb.

Another poster chimed in a said that the OP’s usage was correct, because the large open end of the \> symbol points to the larger number. For example 5\>3 and conversely, 3\<5. I agreed that’s what I learne grade school also. However, without a qualifier to the left, \>X always means greater than and \<X always means less than.

Ohhhh…my head hurts! 😫

Help me oh great Straight Dopers!

BTW, I’ve always and will continue to use \>X to mean greater than in a sentence no matter what the majority of posters say! 😆

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**Author:** ![Didi44](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47c2d/32.png) [@Didi44](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Didi44)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-greater-than-and-less-than-in-a-non-mathematical-sentence/926372/2 "2020-11-24T20:54:16Z")

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BTW, I acknowledged in the thread the that since some apples were 1lb, the correct usage for both of us should have been the ≤ or ≥ symbol. Is this still nonsense without a qualifier?

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**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-greater-than-and-less-than-in-a-non-mathematical-sentence/926372/3 "2020-11-24T21:01:44Z")

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> [@Didi44](#):
>
> However, without a qualifier to the left, \>X always means greater than and \<X always means less than.
> 
> Ohhhh…my head hurts! 😫
> 
> Help me oh great Straight Dopers!
> 
> BTW, I’ve always and will continue to use \>X to mean greater than in a sentence no matter what the majority of posters say!

Not sure what you’re trying to say here, but “\>” means “greater than” and “\<” means “less than”. So you’re correct?

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**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-greater-than-and-less-than-in-a-non-mathematical-sentence/926372/4 "2020-11-24T21:06:34Z")

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The alligator’s mouth is eating the larger number.

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**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-greater-than-and-less-than-in-a-non-mathematical-sentence/926372/5 "2020-11-24T21:10:37Z")

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I am sure what you are trying to say, and I agree with you: “\>” is read “greater than”. Apple weight greater than 1lb. The large side points to “apples”.

What you were taught in grade school was a convenient memory aid, and doesn’t change the reading. The historical derivation of the symbol is interesting, but doesn’t change the reading.

Two things would make me reconsider the reading:

1. If you can show me that most people disagree with us.
2. If you can show me that mathematicians use \> as a single-sided operator with the meaning “less than”

If either of those is true, then \> should not be used in a sentence the way the other forum used it. It would be too confusing, and not informative. If false, then the other forum was just wrong 🙂

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**Author:** ![Didi44](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47c2d/32.png) [@Didi44](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Didi44)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-greater-than-and-less-than-in-a-non-mathematical-sentence/926372/6 "2020-11-24T21:12:42Z")

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Edit: TY Melbourne for the info!

Yes, I agree with both answers. The question is if there’s no qualifier, i.e. nothing for the alligator to eat, does the meaning reverse or is is nonsense?

X\>Y, Y\<X. Straight forward. X is greater than Y and Y is less than X

However, if don’t have the qualifier to the left and just say, All apples are \>1lb, what does that mean? To me and to my knowledge, the majority of people, it’s means that All apples are greater than 1lb.

\ ***Edit: Ahhh…DING! Melbourne made me realize there IS a qualifier. It’s apples! So the \> symbol is correct and the sentence is not nonsense!**

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**Author:** ![Didi44](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47c2d/32.png) [@Didi44](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Didi44)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-greater-than-and-less-than-in-a-non-mathematical-sentence/926372/7 "2020-11-24T21:41:56Z")

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> [@Didi44](#):
>
> On another forum, the OP said that his/her use of the \> symbol followed by a number meant less than. For example, All my apples are \>1lb. I read this is all the apples are less than 1lb, but the OP claims that it means all the apples are greater than 1lb.

_SMACK_ Should be: All my apples are \>1lb. I read this is all the apples are GREATER than 1lb, but the OP claims that it means all the apples are LESS than 1lb.

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**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-greater-than-and-less-than-in-a-non-mathematical-sentence/926372/8 "2020-11-24T21:49:13Z")

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> [@Didi44](#):
>
> _SMACK_ Should be: All my apples are \>1lb. I read this is all the apples are GREATER than 1lb, but the OP claims that it means all the apples are LESS than 1lb.

Apples are \> 1lb means apples are greater than 1lb  
Apples are \< 1lb means apples are less than 1lb

A lot of people seem to struggle with the \> and \< operators, but the above is not debatable.

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**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-greater-than-and-less-than-in-a-non-mathematical-sentence/926372/9 "2020-11-24T21:59:43Z")

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> [@AlsoNamedBort](#):
>
> > [@Didi44](#):
> >
> > However, without a qualifier to the left, \>X always means greater than and \<X always means less than.
> > 
> > Ohhhh…my head hurts! 😫
> > 
> > Help me oh great Straight Dopers!
> > 
> > BTW, I’ve always and will continue to use \>X to mean greater than in a sentence no matter what the majority of posters say!
> 
> Not sure what you’re trying to say here, but “\>” means “greater than” and “\<” means “less than”. So you’re correct?

This.

Where is the mystery?

mmm

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**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-greater-than-and-less-than-in-a-non-mathematical-sentence/926372/10 "2020-11-24T22:09:22Z")

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Once our OP @Didi44 stated his case correctly, it’s clear he’s right and the _other_ OP on that _other_ clearly lesser board is wrong / crazy.

Or perhaps was misunderstood in the first place.

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**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-greater-than-and-less-than-in-a-non-mathematical-sentence/926372/11 "2020-11-24T22:15:18Z")

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I kinda wish they would stop teaching the whole “symbol is a mouth eating the larger number” device to young kids. It’s helpful at that age to solve problems, but it’s not really teaching them what those symbols mean.

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**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-greater-than-and-less-than-in-a-non-mathematical-sentence/926372/12 "2020-11-24T22:22:37Z")

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I was not taught the “alligator mouth eats” thing, though I remember other kids of my generation were. I was told that it is an arrow pointing along the number-line. Greater Than points to where the bigger numbers are if you count the numbers out left-to-right. Less Than points to the smaller numbers. I think that is the literal origin of the symbols, so it just makes sense. Infantilising the symbol isn’t even memorable, why would the larger numbers be the edible ones?

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**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-greater-than-and-less-than-in-a-non-mathematical-sentence/926372/13 "2020-11-24T22:28:17Z")

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I was just taught that it’s a modified = (equals) sign - pinched together (smaller) at the small end, splayed out (larger) at the big end.

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**Author:** ![Didi44](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47c2d/32.png) [@Didi44](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Didi44)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-greater-than-and-less-than-in-a-non-mathematical-sentence/926372/14 "2020-11-24T22:33:13Z")

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This is what the OP wrote when I corrected him/her: “ _\> means less than, so I said all WD externals less than 8 TB are SMR drives.". He/she has has changed the post to "less than_ ”.

Sorry, I won’t link to the exact forum because I like to my connections to other forums separate from each other…

Then another poster brought up the alligator thing and my head began to spin.

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**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-greater-than-and-less-than-in-a-non-mathematical-sentence/926372/15 "2020-11-24T22:45:39Z")

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> [@Didi44](#):
>
> For example, All my apples are \>1lb. I read this is all the apples are less than 1lb, but the OP claims that it means all the apples are greater than 1lb.

I agree on which symbol means greater than and less than, of course, but I still would have a problem knowing how to interpret that sentence.

Is it “The weight of all of my apples combined is more than one pound”? As in, I’m making this salad that includes apples, and the amount I’m tossing in is more than a pound’s worth?

Or is it “Each of the apples I am using is individually more than a pound in weight?” As in, use larger apples?

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**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-greater-than-and-less-than-in-a-non-mathematical-sentence/926372/16 "2020-11-24T22:47:55Z")

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1 lb. apples are pretty damn big.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Didi44](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47c2d/32.png) [@Didi44](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Didi44)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-greater-than-and-less-than-in-a-non-mathematical-sentence/926372/17 "2020-11-24T22:51:05Z")

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Ohhh…you’re making my head spin again! 😛

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**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-greater-than-and-less-than-in-a-non-mathematical-sentence/926372/18 "2020-11-24T23:04:44Z")

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> [@LSLGuy](#):
>
> Once our OP @Didi44 stated his case correctly, it’s clear he’s right

I never read the words, only the meaning. It’s a limitation, and often completely misleads me, but it’s the way I am. The effect is that I don’t see mistakes (spelling, grammatical or sense): if the intent can be inferred, it doesn’t matter if your words say the exact opposite. Unless I’m proofreading, that’s a good thing.

More of a problem is that I naturally write on the same basis: if my meaning can be inferred, why write paragraphs of explanation?

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**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-greater-than-and-less-than-in-a-non-mathematical-sentence/926372/19 "2020-11-24T23:06:22Z")

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I think treating this as a mathematical statement is the wrong idea. “\>”, used in an English sentence, is simply an abbreviation for the words “greater than”. If the sentence doesn’t make sense after performing that substitution, it’s not grammatical (or maybe just incorrect).

“1lb\< all my apples”, despite just reversing the sides (always legal in a mathematical inequality), isn’t a correct English sentence. “One pound less than all my apples” is both missing a word, and is so awkwardly phrased that it basically doesn’t make sense.

“\>”, the mathematical symbol, isn’t an abbreviation. It’s a declaration about the relationship between the left and right sides of the inequality. That’s sometimes phrased as “greater than”, but it’s not quite the same thing.

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**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2020, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-greater-than-and-less-than-in-a-non-mathematical-sentence/926372/20 "2020-11-24T23:19:24Z")

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I think whether or not it is grammatical depends on whether you interpret it to mean ‘less than’ or ‘is less than’ (after all, = can mean ‘equals’ or ‘is equal to’)

“1lb **is** less than all my apples” would be an unusual way to state something, but it’s not ungrammatical, I think.

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