# Use of physical force in training animals like cats and dogs **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 6, 2008, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-physical-force-in-training-animals-like-cats-and-dogs/476012 "2008-12-06T16:50:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-physical-force-in-training-animals-like-cats-and-dogs/476012/1 "2008-12-06T16:50:26Z")
[In this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=496124)a poster is looking for a way to get a cat to stop attaching him. In addition to neutering many strategies are suggested, most along the line of tiring the cat out, with play, spraying him with water, or rewarding him when he does not attack. One poster who suggested immediate physical discipline to dissuade the behavior was seen as some monster. The response was that this would not work. That all you would do is terrorize the cat. I’m not a cat owner, but logically I have to ask why wouldn’t immediate physical discipline work? If cats are smart enough to associate specific behaviors with direct and immediate outcomes why would this be ineffective? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-physical-force-in-training-animals-like-cats-and-dogs/476012/2 "2008-12-06T20:39:42Z")
It may work, but it’s not going to work any better than the spray bottle. So why bother smacking instead of spraying? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-physical-force-in-training-animals-like-cats-and-dogs/476012/3 "2008-12-06T20:44:03Z")
> [@astro](#): > > One poster who suggested immediate physical discipline to dissuade the behavior was seen as some monster. That’s gotta be the worst job of summarizing in the history of summarizing. There’s a HUUUUUGE difference between “immediate physical discipline” and what was actually said: > [@](#): > > BEAT THE EVER-LOVING CRAP OUT OF HIM! NOW! ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-physical-force-in-training-animals-like-cats-and-dogs/476012/4 "2008-12-06T20:59:27Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > That’s gotta be the worst job of summarizing in the history of summarizing. There’s a HUUUUUGE difference between “immediate physical discipline” and what was actually said: > "BEAT THE EVER-LOVING CRAP OUT OF HIM! NOW! " This was the detailed as the procedure which appears to amount to spanking the cat while pinning it. This may be animal cruelty or not depending on your perspective. If the flip side is the cat getting gassed at the animal shelter if the behavior cannot be corrected that might be an element that should be considered. The question in my OP, however, is why this type of behavior conditioning will _not_ work on a cat. What makes it impossible to train cats this way? > [@](#): > > Yes, I respond to cat force (just what do you call biting/clawing?) with human force. This should never happen - a kitten will attempt to bite - that’s what kittens do. THAT is when to smack them - the cat in question is too close to adulthood to allow aggression to continue - grab it by the neck, smack it down with your forearm pinning its butt, and smack its hind quarters - the head is too fragile for force. > > Cats fight by using their rear legs to eviscerate the enemy - if it tries to flip onto its back and engage its rear legs on any part of you - well, that is another one of those lessons which must be learned immediately. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-physical-force-in-training-animals-like-cats-and-dogs/476012/5 "2008-12-06T21:46:25Z")
I don’t think you should talk about training dogs and cats the same way. Dogs have a desire to be in a pack, with a pack leader. You can demonstrate that you are the pack leader without force and you can then train the dog without force. (See various TV programs e.g. ‘The Dog Whisperer’, ‘Dog Borstal’ that illustrate this.) ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-physical-force-in-training-animals-like-cats-and-dogs/476012/6 "2008-12-06T22:01:51Z")
Pretty much what **glee** said. Punitive training _can_ work with _some_ dogs, though it generally isn’t preferred for a variety of reasons. That’s because pack animals will often respond to force by knuckling under and subordinating themselves as junior members of the pack. They also might fear you even as they respect you, which might make for an obediant animal, but not necessarily a well-balanced or affectionate one. Cat hiearchies are far looser and they do not respond in the same way. Thrashing a cat is far more likely to cause resentment and result in sneaky retaliation like taking a dump in your shoes. I won’t say that being punitive will _never_ work, but it is a lot less likely to do so than it would be for a dog ( and it won’t work on some dogs either ). In **Neutron Star** ’s case we don’t have cat aggression, but inappropriate cat play behavior from a half-grown kitten. The answer is to remove the body part from to attack, possibly while making a loud squealing noise to indicate distress ( which is what another kitten would do when play got too rough ) and not rewarding the behaviour. You then substitute more appropriate play behaviour to engage the kitten ( or get him a playmate ). Responding to play overtures ( however rough they may be ), by always harshly punishing is typically not going to make for a loving pet. ETA: This is most frequently a problem with kittens seperated from littermates too early. Typically kittens learn to moderate their roughness from wrestling with their siblings. Seperate them too early and sometimes they never get that lesson.