# Use of Retired military rank in professional situations **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 27, 2018, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-retired-military-rank-in-professional-situations/813215 "2018-04-27T12:23:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-retired-military-rank-in-professional-situations/813215/21 "2018-04-28T05:21:17Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I guess the use of prior military rank bothers me a bit, because while it means A LOT while in the service, once you are retired, with respect to civilians you are just another civilian. I have never been in the military. But when I find out that somebody has achieved a high rank, it instantly tells me certain things about them: (A), they have a great deal of managerial experience; (B), they have held jobs with a great deal of responsibility (often in charge of hundreds if not thousands of people, and/or responsible for budgets in the hundreds of millions); (C), they know how to make decisions. Can you really not conceive of a situation where it MIGHT be helpful to know things like that right off the bat? ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-retired-military-rank-in-professional-situations/813215/22 "2018-04-28T11:05:06Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > …My Mom has been retired from Nursing for over 15 years. It is her earned right to sign her name Toons Mom, R.N. She signs checks and legal documents as such. This boggles my mind. I don’t know \*any \*nurse who does this. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-retired-military-rank-in-professional-situations/813215/23 "2018-04-28T13:04:57Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Wondered what you thought, or whether you knew any official policy - regarding someone signing themselves as - say - Vice Admiral, U.S. Navy (Ret). [According to Debretts](https://www.debretts.com/expertise/forms-of-address/professions/the-armed-forces/), in the UK, in the Army only officers of the rank of Captain or above may do so; in the Navy it’s Lieutenant Commander and above. There is a suitably acerbic thread on Arrse [here](https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/retention-of-offr-rank-on-retirement.15753/). ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-retired-military-rank-in-professional-situations/813215/24 "2018-04-28T13:16:01Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > I have never been in the military. > > But when I find out that somebody has achieved a high rank, it instantly tells me certain things about them: (A), they have a great deal of managerial experience; (B), they have held jobs with a great deal of responsibility (often in charge of hundreds if not thousands of people, and/or responsible for budgets in the hundreds of millions); (C), they know how to make decisions. > > Can you really not conceive of a situation where it MIGHT be helpful to know things like that right off the bat? I would agree with you. But in the example I provided earlier, we had a guy who was a CPO. Now, I have a lot of respect for anyone who achieves any military rank at all, especially one that requires administrative duties, but I simply don’t put that in the same category as, say, a full-bird colonel who retired from the Army. Plus, in our business, having been a CPO in the USCG was completely irrelevant to the services we provided. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-retired-military-rank-in-professional-situations/813215/25 "2018-04-28T13:54:42Z")
I find pretentious signatures to be really amusing. I don’t know if education is worse than other fields, but it can get pretty bad: people put 5-line sigs listing a bunch of irrelevant stuff on in-house emails. And don’t get me started on assistant principals/principals who put “M.Ed” after their name. It’s a requirement for the job, so it’s totally redundant, and it seems about as meaningful as putting “B.A” after your name. I don’t use a default sig at all: when I’m emailing someone whom I don’t know, I include whatever responsibilities/information I think might be useful. If I am emailing people who do know me, I figure if I need to remind them of my “titles”, then those titles don’t really mean much, do they? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-retired-military-rank-in-professional-situations/813215/26 "2018-04-28T14:30:22Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I find pretentious signatures to be really amusing. I don’t know if education is worse than other fields, but it can get pretty bad: people put 5-line sigs listing a bunch of irrelevant stuff on in-house emails. And don’t get me started on assistant principals/principals who put “M.Ed” after their name. It’s a requirement for the job, so it’s totally redundant, and it seems about as meaningful as putting “B.A” after your name. > > I don’t use a default sig at all: when I’m emailing someone whom I don’t know, I include whatever responsibilities/information I think might be useful. If I am emailing people who do know me, I figure if I need to remind them of my “titles”, then those titles don’t really mean much, do they? Agreed, outside of purely professional correspondence and interractions (where the rank, title or qualification may be significant) I find such things pretentious. “it’s\* Doctor\* x actually!” Is it really? I couldn’t give a shit but you’ve just given me a huge clue as to the sort of person you are. It can be fun to ask them for advice on a nasty rash and then when they tell you they aren’t a medical doctor say “oh! not a _real_ doctor then?” ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-retired-military-rank-in-professional-situations/813215/27 "2018-04-28T21:11:04Z")
> [@MoonMoon](#): > > Yeah, this is what I was going to say. Academia is ridiculous when it comes hierarchy and titles/prestige. Any honorific or letters anyone has earned are damn sure going in their signature block, whether they’re relevant to the current position or not. > > Apparently community college isn’t immune to the disease. That’s nonsense. I and most of my colleagues don’t use titles (Dr., Prof.) anywhere not relevant to their positions. When I send a letter of recommendation for a student, I always signed it My Name XYZ Professor of Pure Mathematics But when I was a member of our local school board representing elementary schools, I was careful to insist that I be referred to as Mr. Name. It is true that my opposite number representing high schools, who was a professor of Physics insisted on being call Dr. X, but he explained to me that he sweated blood to get that degree. FWIW, I didn’t sweat blood. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-retired-military-rank-in-professional-situations/813215/28 "2018-04-28T21:31:48Z")
I view it as poor form. Of the hand full of times I’ve seen it done, it was done in poor taste, or in a way completely inapplicable to the conversation at hand–more for self-aggrandizement or when someone needed to lean on pedigree more than experience/knowledge. As mentioned before upthread, it’s rarely relevant to a professional civilian conversation at hand. Nobody cares what rank you _were_ (half of the civilians here don’t understand the difference between a Corporal and a Colonel anyway), but they do care what skillsets you bring to the table. Those that have identified them as _Adm. Snootybritches USN (ret)_ usually get the appropriate ignoring until they get down to brass tacks and express whatever they want to express. It’s not about rank or who you were, it’s about what you know now, and how you can network with others to get the job done. Hell, PhDs are a dime-a-dozen here, but you wouldn’t know it from talking to “Joe,” “Mike,” or “Brad.” Tripler Just. . . Tripler. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2018, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-retired-military-rank-in-professional-situations/813215/29 "2018-04-29T01:36:50Z")
From now on, I insist that you all address me as Chief. Chefguy, CPO, USN (Ret) Okay, how 'bout if I bring cookies? ---
**Author:** ![Cub\_Mistress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea666f/32.png) [@Cub\_Mistress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cub_Mistress)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2018, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-retired-military-rank-in-professional-situations/813215/30 "2018-04-29T02:16:52Z")
I only put RN after my name when signing work related documents or, here on the Dope, when answering questions in my area of expertise. A shortcut reference to my bona fides, if you will. Never in social situations or on legal documents outside of work. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-retired-military-rank-in-professional-situations/813215/31 "2018-04-29T13:29:51Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > From now on, I insist that you all address me as Chief. > > Chefguy, CPO, USN (Ret) > > Okay, how 'bout if I bring cookies? Where cookies are concerned, “Chef” is MUCH more prestigious than “Chief”. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2018, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-retired-military-rank-in-professional-situations/813215/32 "2018-04-29T13:38:16Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Where cookies are concerned, “Chef” is MUCH more prestigious than “Chief”. Chefs don’t make cookies. You have to go to **Baker** for those. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-retired-military-rank-in-professional-situations/813215/33 "2018-04-30T16:02:10Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > I have never been in the military. > > But when I find out that somebody has achieved a high rank, it instantly tells me certain things about them: (A), they have a great deal of managerial experience; (B), they have held jobs with a great deal of responsibility (often in charge of hundreds if not thousands of people, and/or responsible for budgets in the hundreds of millions); (C), they know how to make decisions. > > Can you really not conceive of a situation where it MIGHT be helpful to know things like that right off the bat? I can think of many types of prior experience that might suggest such qualities/experience. I see no reason why military rank is sufficiently different/special that it should be listed in non-military contexts. I presume/hope that anyone who is selected for a college president would have the types of qualities you suggest. And if I want to find about about them, I could check their CV. Moreover, listing of military rank suggests to me things that might NOT be desirable. Such as someone who is not used to non-military chains of command and civilian workplace dynamics. And, as I suggested before, it impresses me as someone desiring some positive/preferential opinion based on their prior experience. Don’t tell me what you did in the past; show me what you can do now. To me it is little different than if someone included in their sig block a parenthetical (Former CEO of Fortune 500 Company). Or (Married for 30+ years and parent of 3 well adjusted, self sufficient adults). 😉 The fact that ex-military CAN list their retired rank does not mean they HAVE to. IMO, that someone chooses to does not convey entirely positive connotations. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-retired-military-rank-in-professional-situations/813215/34 "2018-04-30T16:38:25Z")
Seems to me that using your retired rank is looking backward and that you’re implying that your best days are behind you. You should be emphasizing what you are or what you’re trying to be, not what you were years ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-retired-military-rank-in-professional-situations/813215.md?page=1)