# Use of the title "Doctor" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 22, 2020, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341 "2020-04-22T13:29:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/21 "2020-04-22T14:19:55Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I don’t care if PhDs want to be called “Dr.” unless they’re passing themselves off as medical authorities without the necessary background. The American Bar Association has the same attitude. It has issued guidance saying that lawyers holding J.D. degrees or other doctorate degrees may call themselves “doctor,” so long as they are not implying that they have expertise that they don’t have. But the societal issue is that it’s not really about whether someone wants to call emself “doctor.” It’s really about whether other people want to call them doctor. I’ve noticed that there are some communities that really like addressing their religious leaders as “doctor.” ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/22 "2020-04-22T14:24:11Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > If you have a PhD you may be really smart, even smart enough to make a radio out of a coconut, but you aren’t a REAL doctor. Real doctors can fix broken arms and write prescriptions and excuse you from jury duty. [Origin of doctor](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/doctor) 1275–1325; Middle English docto(u)r (\< Anglo-French) \< Latin, equivalent to doc(ēre) to teach + -tor -tor You’re not a real Doctor unless you are qualified as a teacher. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/23 "2020-04-22T14:33:34Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The American Bar Association has the same attitude. It has issued guidance saying that lawyers holding J.D. degrees or other doctorate degrees may call themselves “doctor,” so long as they are not implying that they have expertise that they don’t have. A friend of mine completed dental school and immediately went back to obtain an advanced medical degree in maxillofacial surgery. He is a doctor. _But_, he never practiced dentistry, choosing instead to return to school for his law degree and then his JD in law. He now practices law, limited to medical malpractice. He is very careful about how he advertises/describes his education. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/24 "2020-04-22T14:34:00Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > They also resented the fact that the general public considered “doctor” to be properly the domain of physicians and other people in medical professions. As mentioned above, the Ph.D. is a terminal degree and an M.D. is not. They didn’t mind that physicians could use “doctor,” but they resented that a lot of laypeople thought their use of “doctor” was somehow illegitimate. You would think that really smart people with years of education at university could understand that the same word can have different meanings, and that ultimately it is the popular usage of a term that determines its meaning. A quick glance at [etymology.com](https://www.etymonline.com/word/doctor) indicates that the use of “doctor” to mean what we would call a terminal degree dates from the late 14th century, and the usage to mean a medical practitioner dates from around 1400, with that meaning really becoming rooted in the popular sense in the late 16th century. And of course, the term originally meant one of the most learned of theologians, a “Doctor of the Church”. Different meanings of the same word. But I guess learned people can let their personal prejudices take sway over the history of the term, just like non-learned people can. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/25 "2020-04-22T14:35:53Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > I have a number of friends that are medical doctors, dentists, Phd’s, etc. I never address them or introduce them as “Doctor”. I refer to all of them as “first name”. If they insisted they wouldn’t be my friend. Well, yeah, if everyone else is 'Bob" or “Jimmy”, you’d be an ass to insist on “Dr”. But if the level of formality is such that everyone else is “Mr This” or “Ms. That”, then insisting on “Dr” is not out of line. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/26 "2020-04-22T14:39:11Z")
Who the hell uses titles in social situations anyway? It’s bizarre. Social situations would suggest first name terms to me. Aside from that, if you have a PhD, then your title isn’t Mr/Ms, it is Doctor. So in situations where you might cite your title (I can only think of form filling or addressing a class), then I would imagine you would use Dr. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/27 "2020-04-22T14:40:06Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > You’re not a real Doctor unless you are qualified as a teacher. Clearly you are not seeing the difference between a real doctor and a REAL doctor. This is something EVERYBODY KNOWS. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/28 "2020-04-22T14:42:05Z")
> [@Mark\_Finn](#): > > I had a friend who got his PhD from a prestigious US university. He insisted on bring introduced (in social as well as professional settings) as “Doctor John Doe”. In my mind - at least in a social setting - the title “Doctor” should only be used by physicians, dentists, and veterinarians. What **doreen** said. Is this a situation where they’d otherwise be introduced as “Mr. John Doe” or “Ms. Jane Doe”? Or is this a situation where they’d otherwise be introduced as “John” or “Jane” (with or without the last name)? If it’s the former, it’s totally appropriate IMHO for them to insist on the “Dr.” If it’s the latter, it’s maybe “a little boorish” (as **Chingon** said), but it would also be so for a physician, dentist, or veterinarian. See also the thread: [PhDs who are referred to as Dr, and those who aren’t](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=886250). ---
**Author:** ![Jarred\_Reeves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71e660/32.png) [@Jarred\_Reeves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jarred_Reeves)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/29 "2020-04-22T14:49:37Z")
In my opinion, using titles such as “doctor”, “professor” or similar is justified only in the scientific environment - on forums and conferences among their colleagues. In other cases, it’s redundant and unnecessary. As for the “doctor” title, referring to non-medical doctors, it’s confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/30 "2020-04-22T14:59:37Z")
I’d like to see you try to address [this guy](https://cdn.onebauer.media/one/media/5e58/0156/a5ac/a9cd/9390/e42f/indy-main.jpg?quality=50&width=1800&ratio=16-9&resizeStyle=aspectfill&format=jpg)as “\*Mister \*Jones”. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/31 "2020-04-22T15:01:59Z")
> [@Jarred\_Reeves](#): > > In my opinion, using titles such as “doctor”, “professor” or similar is justified only in the scientific environment - on forums and conferences among their colleagues. In other cases, it’s redundant and unnecessary. As for the “doctor” title, referring to non-medical doctors, it’s confusing. Might be for you, doesn’t make it incorrect or inappropriate. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/32 "2020-04-22T15:05:13Z")
First, I’d like to ask all the people saying “Well, in a social setting where everyone’s introducing themselves as Mr. Smith and Miss Jones…” WHAT kind of parties are you going to? Second, Academic Doctor and Medical Doctor IS confusing. From the brilliant Cabin Pressure, where the pilot, Martin (played oh so straight by Benzedrine Cumberbund) has been using the intercom asking if there’s a doctor on board and has noticed a “Dr. Price” on the manifest. Handy, as they have a man dying in the galley… > [@](#): > > [Intercom Bings] > MARTIN: Oh, I know, trying to save someone’s life is such a chore, isn’t it? Speaking of which, if there is in fact, and despite the deafening silence so far, a doctor on board, and if that doctor has quite finished his chicken casserole, blueberry cheesecake, and – ooh – coffee with milk no sugar, then maybe such a hypothetical doctor might like to stop flicking through the duty-free catalog and thoughtfully pulling on his sandy mustache, and walk the hypothetical seven rows to join me with the patient here in the galley. But, if there isn’t a doctor on board, then never mind. [Bing] > > * * * > > [Curtains pushed aside] > > MAN: Hello? > > MARTIN: Oh, hello! Mr. Price, is it? > > DR. PRICE: Doctor Price. > > MARTIN: Oh, a doctor! Good Lord, what a stroke of luck! The very thing we’re looking for. Well, this is the patient. > > DR. PRICE: Okay, let’s have a look, okay. Uh huh. > > MARTIN: What do you think? > > DR. PRICE: I think, probably…a bridge. > > MARTIN: A bridge? > > DR. PRICE: Yeah, a tunnel’s obviously out of the question, but if you really need to get past him, you can use a couple of drinks trolleys and a stretcher to rig up a rudimentary cantilever bridge - that at least is my professional opinion _as a Ph.D. in Civil Engineering._ > Or has one of us made some sort of really embarrassing mistake? > > MARTIN: Wha – Oh, I’m so sorry. I didn’t… > > DR. PRICE: Yeah. Oh, and by the way, I dunno anything about medicine, but this guy doesn’t need a doctor. > > MARTIN: What? > > DR. PRICE: Not anymore. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/33 "2020-04-22T15:23:15Z")
> [@digs](#): > > First, I’d like to ask all the people saying “Well, in a social setting where everyone’s introducing themselves as Mr. Smith and Miss Jones…” WHAT kind of parties are you going to? I don’t think anyone actually said parties but there are situations that aren’t really professional but aren’t really social either as well as situations that are professional for one person but not the other. The doctors\* and other staff at most medical offices I go to call me “Ms Lastname” , the staff at my kids school called me " Mrs Husbands last name" even at social events. I’ve bought tickets to charitable functions and if I didn’t know the people running the function, they referred to me as “Ms Lastname” and certainly when I’ve been to work-related social events people don’t call me by my first name if they don’t do so at work (and few do) - The only exception is my PCP who I have been seeing for at least 25 years. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/34 "2020-04-22T15:30:54Z")
> [@Jarred\_Reeves](#): > > In my opinion, using titles such as “doctor”, “professor” or similar is justified only in the **scientific** environment - on forums and conferences among their colleagues. In other cases, it’s redundant and unnecessary. As for the “doctor” title, referring to non-medical doctors, it’s confusing. (my emphasis) What, people with a Ph.D. in history or English lit don’t qualify? ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/35 "2020-04-22T16:01:25Z")
I’ll address either MD’s or those awarded doctorates as “Dr.” in professional settings, but not in any private settings. For that matter the only people I’d refer to by their titles in private settings are: –really high government officials, say governor or higher –priests (in my experience all Catholic priests prefer “Father”, while Episcopal priests tend to use a wide variety of titles). ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@Mark\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mark_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/36 "2020-04-22T16:24:58Z")
I worked for many years in a non-academic University job. I had no degree, but people would ask (after learning that I worked at a University) such questions as: “What do you teach?” “Do you have tenure?” “Where did you get your doctorate?” I would often get mail addressed to “Dr.” or “Prof.” just due to the University job. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/37 "2020-04-22T16:27:55Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > See also the thread: [PhDs who are referred to as Dr, and those who aren’t](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=886250). Also the thread: [You have an MD or a PhD. Do you make people call you “Doctor” in social settings?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=665577) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/38 "2020-04-22T17:08:23Z")
If you are in a context where you would be calling people by their last names (Mr. Soandso or Ms. Suchandsuch), and a person has a doctorate in a field which is relevant to that context, then you should address them as Dr. Soandso. For instance, a researcher contacting another researcher who they don’t know personally, or a student addressing a professor, or a hospital paging a medical professional. If you are in a context where you would be calling people by their last names, and a person has a doctorate in a field which is not relevant to that context, then you just call them Mr. or Ms., same as anyone else. If you are in a context where you would be calling people by their first name, then you do the same for people with doctorates. This applies regardless of whether the doctorate is a medical one or a real one. > [@](#): > > –priests (in my experience all Catholic priests prefer “Father”, while Episcopal priests tend to use a wide variety of titles). There’s been a shift in usage for Catholic priests in the past few decades. It used to be that a priest was addressed as “Father Lastname”, but nowadays, it’s more common to find “Father Firstname”. The “Father” is still almost always included, though. Possibly relevant is that a priest’s social circles will usually consist primarily of their parishioners or other Catholics. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/39 "2020-04-22T17:51:06Z")
To think about a variant of this dilemma, what if your friend is a sheikh, mufti, earl, admiral, president, etc.? Are you really supposed to address him or her formally if you meet them at a party? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2020, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/40 "2020-04-22T17:53:45Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > To think about a variant of this dilemma, what if your friend is a sheikh, mufti, earl, admiral, president, etc.? Are you really supposed to address him or her formally if you meet them at a party? What would you say if they walked into your bar? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341.md?page=3)