# Use of the title "Doctor" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 22, 2020, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341 "2020-04-22T13:29:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/61 "2020-04-23T03:43:34Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > You’ve presumably heard of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr? I recall him usually cited in news reports as the Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King Jr, showing a non-medical specialty. I hold a divinity doctorate from the Universal Life Church - cost a whole $15 back then - so I’m the Rev Dr RioRico Blutarsky. And because a trade college hired me to teach COBOL, I am also Prof Blutarsky. I do know better than to refer to myself thus. Call me what you want but don’t call me late for drinks. I note such as Dr Phil, with a PhD in psychology but no licence (it was pulled), discoursing ignorantly on medical matters in some media. Duh. Our friend, a federal bankruptcy judge with some doctorates and a professorship, is Judge in formal affairs and Al to pals. I’m reminded of old customs. A Brit traveler in 1850s USA noted that in the West and South a fat man was called Judge, a tall man was General, and medium-sized men were Colonel, or Captain if leaner. Ah, if only doctors and professors were so easily discerned! ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/62 "2020-04-23T03:48:28Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Just to add, my understanding is that academic, nonmedical doctors is the original sense of the title, way back in the Middle Ages. Or is that not correct? The original sense of the title was a learned theologian, who stood out markedly for his contributions to the church’s theology: a [Doctor of the Church](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_the_Church). > [@](#): > > Doctor of the Church (Latin doctor “teacher”), also referred to as Doctor of the Universal Church (Latin: Doctoris Ecclesiae Universalis), is a title given by the Catholic Church to saints recognized as having made a significant contribution to theology or doctrine through their research, study, or writing.[1] That meaning of the term gradually evolved in the early Middle Ages and was formally recognised by Pope Boniface in a decree in 1298. The four Doctors which he recognised were Saint Gregory the Great, Saint Ambrose, Saint Augustine, and Saint Jerome. The Eastern Church similarly recognised doctors: Saint John Chrysostom, Saint Basil the Great, and Gregory of Nazianzus. “Doctor” here was used in the meaning of teacher. Thus, the earliest meaning of the term was an outstanding theologian. As I mentioned in an earlier post, [etymology.com indicates that the term “doctor”](https://www.etymonline.com/word/doctor) meaning the equivalent of a terminal degree, enabling the holder to teach, first seems to appear in English around the late 14th century, so some centuries after the concept of a Doctor of the Church evolved. However, the first recorded use of “doctor” to mean a practitioner of medicine is attested in 1400, so pretty much contemporaneous with the “terminal degree” meaning. It became firmly established in the sense of a medical practitioner by the late 16th century. For example, a parliamentary roll of 1421 reads: > [@](#): > > That no man … practyse in Fisyk … but he be Bacheler or Doctour of Fisyk, havynge Lettres testimonyalx sufficeantz of on of those degrees of the Universite. “Fisyk” here being the same root as 'Physician". However, as descriptivists know, the meaning of a word can shift with popular usage. If in today’s age, “doctor” primarily means a physician, that is the meaning of the word. Arguments based on usage in the late 14th to late 16th centuries about the "real meaning of ‘doctor’ " don’t carry much weight against popular usage. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/63 "2020-04-23T04:55:02Z")
A person who has earned a Doctor degree is entitled to use Doctor with his name. They went to a lot of work to get the title in some cases more that what a MD would do. Those who would object to a person with a doctor degree using Doctor with their name. Would you object to someone who had earned their Master’s license calling themselves Captain. Or a man granted the rank of Commodore going by Commodore K…? These people have earned the right to use their title and we should respect what they have done. I do know of some exceptions to having a Doctor Degree and using the title. One of my kids earned a Doctor degree in Nursing. Professionally she does not go by Dr. c… that could cause some confussion. And I had a teacher who did not use his Doctor title often. He had a Doctor in Economics and he was a Engineering Officer on the training ship teaching electricity. Most of the Engineering staff and the Midshipmen could not stand the captain of the training ship. And the captain would correct anyone who called him Mr. B… The captain’s response was always "it is Captain B…, nor Mr. B… This teacher would only call the captain Mr. B… He was waiting for the captain to call him on it. Because he planed to tell the captain if you want me to refer to as Captain B… you will refer to me as Doctor T… It was fun to see the captain’s face every time he was call Mr. B… by this teacher. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/64 "2020-04-23T05:38:10Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > Those who would object to a person with a doctor degree using Doctor with their name. Would you object to someone who had earned their Master’s license calling themselves Captain… Only Julius Caesar gets to refer to himself in the third person. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/65 "2020-04-23T11:42:19Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > Would you object to someone who had earned their Master’s license calling themselves Captain. Or a man granted the rank of Commodore going by Commodore K…? If they do so outside of a work setting, they are buffoons. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/66 "2020-04-23T12:13:26Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > A person who has earned a Doctor degree is entitled to use Doctor with his name. They went to a lot of work to get the title in some cases more that what a MD would do. So what is the cut-off regarding the amount of work done to secure a qualification and expecting someone to use it? In any case, I don’t think anyone is saying an individual can’t \*use \*a qualification that they’ve earned. I have letters I could use myself if I so choose. I never do. > [@](#): > > Those who would object to a person with a doctor degree using Doctor with their name. Would you object to someone who had earned their Master’s license calling themselves Captain. Or a man granted the rank of Commodore going by Commodore K…? These people have earned the right to use their title and we should respect what they have done. Personally, they can call \*themselves \*whatever the hell they want, can’t stop them. I _would_ take a very dim view of them insisting that I use those titles outside of a professional situation where such distinctions may be useful. I am surrounded by more doctorates than I can shake a stick at, vanishingly few have ever insisted on using “doctor”, those that have done are invariably arseholes. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/67 "2020-04-23T12:39:14Z")
Military ranks follow the same criteria as I stated before: You use the title in a formal situation where the title is relevant. If you’re reporting for duty, that’s a formal situation, and your title is relevant, so you tell the gate guard “I’m Commodore Johnson, reporting for duty”. If you’re in a situation where military rank is irrelevant, you’re “Mr.” or “Ms.”. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/68 "2020-04-23T21:43:06Z")
MDs probably do at least 8 years of training beyond a BA/BS . How many PhDs do 8 years? Not that many that I know of but I could be wrong. Used to be physical therapy was a MS degree but now it is a DPT degree. But some of the MS people got their degree changed to DPT and claimed they were doctors and there was a lot of complaints about that. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/69 "2020-04-23T22:36:32Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > MDs probably do at least 8 years of training beyond a BA/BS . These days in the US, your typical MD needs 4 years of med school after a bachelor’s degree, plus at least 2 years of post-MD training to get licensed to practice. Most MDs do at least 3 years of training after med school; that gets many of them eligible to be boarded in a reputable specialty such as Pediatrics, Family Medicine, Internal Medicine, and others. These are considered the most reputable, gold standard [certification boards for physicians](https://www.abms.org/member-boards/specialty-subspecialty-certificates/). Training can range from 3 to 7 or more years to qualify one for certain board exams. Some tracks are research-heavy. Me, I did 3 years training to get Family Medicine certified. These days one must do continuous training/medical education to keep one’s certification. It can be fairly rigorous to maintain one’s board status. I expect to be called “Dr.” in front of patients or while giving educational/academic lectures to larger medical groups, and in those settings I call others whatever title they request, generally defaulting to Mr. or Ms. unless i know/am told otherwise. I do not like being referred to as “Dr.” outside of the workplace. I’m more of a first-name guy. Though I admit I flaunt my title when dealing with medical bureaucracies in general. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/70 "2020-04-24T00:20:05Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > The wife has a PhD in a nonmedical field. She generally does not insist on people calling her Dr. but rather **opts for Mrs. in social settings**. Please, why not go by your actual name in social settings, and leave your titles behind? In a world where a lot of damage is done by people who take themselves too seriously, and puff themselves up with titles instead of quality, why not use your real name? Sorry, this hits too close to home. My very ‘propah’ family (of Upper Crust Supremacists) will refer to themselves as “Mr.” and “Mrs.” to people they feel superior to, to remind them of their place. They’ve gone so far as to correct me when I introduce myself as Diggory Diggson to anyone under 18. “Oh, no, dear, you’re _Mister_ Diggson…” > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Personally, they can call \*themselves \*whatever the hell they want, can’t stop them. I _would_ take a very dim view of them insisting that I use those titles outside of a professional situation where such distinctions may be useful. > > I am surrounded by more doctorates than I can shake a stick at, vanishingly few have ever insisted on using “doctor”, those that have done are invariably arseholes. Amen. > [@Ruken](#): > > If they do so outside of a work setting, they are buffoons. Amen. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/71 "2020-04-24T04:49:27Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > MDs probably do at least 8 years of training beyond a BA/BS . How many PhDs do 8 years? Not that many that I know of but I could be wrong. Although I know it’s not common, the wife studied for hers for more than 20 years after earning her second master’s degree. Because of the time she also had to spend on her teaching and research duties at her university, she kept timing out and having to start over. But she kept at it until she finally did it, Thais being nothing if not persevering. > [@digs](#): > > Please, why not go by your actual name in social settings, and leave your titles behind? > > In a world where a lot of damage is done by people who take themselves too seriously, and puff themselves up with titles instead of quality, why not use your real name? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/72 "2020-04-24T05:36:02Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Only Julius Caesar gets to refer to himself in the third person. We are not amused. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/73 "2020-04-24T13:45:27Z")
It’s not necessarily snobbishness; I have a friend who goes by ‘Doctor [firstname]’ in casual conversation, however that’s because she has a very similar name to another friend in the same friendship group (same firstname, very similar surname that often gets confused). She’s a doctor of the medical variety, and ‘Civil engineer [firstame]’ would be a bit clumsy for the other one. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/74 "2020-04-24T13:54:58Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > :rolleyes: Right back at you. If you have a name, and most people do, then drop the pretense and use it. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/75 "2020-04-24T13:58:08Z")
As I’ve mentioned occasionally, I do a fair amount of community theater. There’s one guy that I’ve done several shows with, who has a Ph.D. in chemistry. He insists on being billed in the cast lists as Dr. Firstname Lastname. Always struck me as pretentious. But then, he’s a pretentious fellow. He’s also a climate change denier, and very quick to throw out “I have a Ph.D. and you don’t” if you disagree with him about it. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/76 "2020-04-24T14:01:28Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > MDs probably do at least 8 years of training beyond a BA/BS . How many PhDs do 8 years? Not that many that I know of but I could be wrong. Any continued PhD-level research _is_ training. Postdocs are common in the sciences. And of course MDs are MDs as soon as they finish trade school, regardless of whether or not they ever actually practice, or if they stop. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/77 "2020-04-24T14:17:19Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > And of course MDs are MDs as soon as they finish trade school, regardless of whether or not they ever actually practice, or if they stop. This is the part to consider. I understand that they just graduated, their parents are so proud their child is a doctor. When they’re doing rounds you’re going to introduce Pat as “Dr. Pat”, not “Recent Med School Graduate Who Doesn’t Yet Have Enough Experience or Training to Practice Pat”, but outside of the clinical environment it’s back to just “Pat”. An aside, when my mother finally finished up her PhD, my father already had one and loved being address as Doctor. There was a flood of their friends calling the house and asking for Dr. M\_\_\_\_ just to get my dad on the phone and say, “No, I meant the other Dr. M\_\_\_\_\_”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/78 "2020-04-24T14:46:29Z")
Yeah, a chemistry PhD insisting on being referred to as “Dr.” on the cast listing of a community theater (or theatre) is definitely pretentious. If you’re a doctor of drama (is there even such a thing?), you get to do that. Maybe if the guy in charge of lighting is a PhD electrical engineer, or something. But not an acting chemist (a phrase which I realize after typing could be interpreted in two different ways, but the other interpretation might be useful in taking the guy down a notch). ---
**Author:** ![Jarred\_Reeves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71e660/32.png) [@Jarred\_Reeves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jarred_Reeves)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/79 "2020-04-24T15:00:41Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Might be for you, doesn’t make it incorrect or inappropriate. That’s what I’m saying - in my opinion:) ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341/80 "2020-04-24T15:21:01Z")
I would also like to point out that Doctor Octopus is a PhD, though Doctor Strange is a M.D. PhD. so who knows which one he’s using (Doctor Doctor Strange?). Doctor Who, OTOH, is self-selected, which makes him even more insufferable ;). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341.md?page=5)