# Use of the word 'repeat' taboo on Marine radio **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 13, 2001, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-repeat-taboo-on-marine-radio/72352 "2001-07-13T09:41:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2001, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-repeat-taboo-on-marine-radio/72352/21 "2001-07-15T06:40:08Z")
**sewalk:** You wanna know what my fondest memory was of Desert Storm? After taking shit for two+ years from pongoids about how they (in their aluminum armored Bradleys and TOW missiles) were just as good as any tank, hearing them screaming for tank support against a measly 3-gun towed 100mm anti-tank gun battery. I mean c’mon, the damned things were obsolete around the time of Vietnam, and the bad-assed mechanized infantry were afraid of them? We rolled up, popped some 120 of 'em, and stopped for lunch while the dirt grubbers went in for the body count and to round up prisoners. ---
**Author:** ![debater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@debater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/debater)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-repeat-taboo-on-marine-radio/72352/22 "2014-09-09T19:58:08Z")
I’m not sure, but I think the person who is, in reality at the time, commanding a specified unit is called ‘actual’, short for ‘actual commander’, because if the initial commander is killed or incapicitated, the next in rank takes over, and becomes the actual commander, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-repeat-taboo-on-marine-radio/72352/23 "2014-09-09T20:42:16Z")
> [@Grok](#): > > I recently read in a pilot magazine of an instructor who teaches his students not to use the words “for” or “to” in radio communications, because they can be confused with numbers. So rather than telling a controller, “Cessna 1234X direct to LaGuardia, at 2000 climbing for 3000”, he would advise pilots to instead say: " > > “Cessna 1234X direct LaGuardia, 2000 feet, climb 30000.” Less ambiguity, and a slightly shorter transmission. [Flying Tiger Line Flight 66](http://code7700.com/mishap_flying_tiger_line_66.html). Kuala Lumpur ATC told them to descend 2-4-0-0 feet which Tiger 66 heard as descend to 4-0-0 feet. Although KL used non-standard language, blame the pilots for not questioning why they were flying so low and ignoring the “Bwoop Bwoop Pull Up”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-repeat-taboo-on-marine-radio/72352/24 "2014-09-09T20:46:55Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > [Flying Tiger Line Flight 66](http://code7700.com/mishap_flying_tiger_line_66.html). Kuala Lumpur ATC told them to descend 2-4-0-0 feet which Tiger 66 heard as descend to 4-0-0 feet. Although KL used non-standard language, blame the pilots for not questioning why they were flying so low and ignoring the “Bwoop Bwoop Pull Up”. **debater** revived a zombie thread from 2001, and **Grok** hasn’t posted since 2002. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-repeat-taboo-on-marine-radio/72352/25 "2014-09-10T00:27:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > **debater** revived a zombie thread from 2001, and **Grok** hasn’t posted since 2002. You think he’s OK? Didn’t anyone check on him? ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-repeat-taboo-on-marine-radio/72352/26 "2014-09-10T01:13:20Z")
Consonant sounds can get messed up on radio. Vowel sounds don’t. I was trained to say: wun, two, tha-ree, fower, fi-yive, six, seven, eight, niner, and zero. Sort of like Lily Tomlin’s Ernestine the Telephone Operator. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-repeat-taboo-on-marine-radio/72352/27 "2014-09-10T12:11:22Z")
Late to the party, but there are a few things that can use corrections: But first, as stated in a few other posts, the word REPEAT is a specific request. It does not mean “say that again, I couldn’t hear you”, it means - “_6-54. Repeat. REPEAT can be given during adjustment or FFE missions. During Adjustment REPEAT means firing another round(s) with the last data and adjust for any change in ammunition if necessary. REPEAT is not sent in the initial call for fire. 6-55. During FFE, REPEAT means fire the same number of rounds using the same method of FFE as last fired. Changes in the number of guns, the previous corrections, the interval, or the ammunition may be requested_” (Army FM 3-9.30 Observed Fire). That isn’t something we want to be casual about. > [@sewalk](#): > > If, for example the shell hits 400 meters in front of the target, he would send “Up 4”. The command/request “Up” refers to altitude or elevation. So if the spotting round landed at the base of a cliff, and the observer wants the round to land at the top of the 100 meter cliff, instead of the bottom, he would say “Up, One Hundred”. If the round hit 400 meters in front of the target as in your example, the proper term to use is “Add, Four Hundred”. If the round fell short, one needs to Add. If the round fell long, one needs to Drop. If the round landed high on the steep mountain, one calls Down. If the round landed low on the steep mountain, one calls Up. As for the question about “Actual”, as stated previously, it signifies that the person speaking is actually that person and not a messenger or radio operator. For instance, the company commander of Baker Company will be BAKER 6. He has a Radio Operator (RTO) that does most of the talking on the radio, relaying commands and such for the commander. This frees up the commander to pay attention to the battle or the task at hand. He tells the RTO what to put out, or who to contact, or whatever. The RTO’s callsign is BAKER 6 ROMEO. If anyone calls BAKER 6 on the radio, it’s going to be BAKER 6 ROMEO who responds. If its the General or something, he doesn’t want to waste time with the RTO. He is going to call BAKER 6 ACTUAL. In that case, the RTO will hand the mic over and say “Sir, its for you”. It works the other way as well. If the commander is calling headquarters or something and he wants the person on the other end to know that he is speaking directly to the commander, he will say “HQ, this is BAKER 6 ACTUAL”. It comes in handy and saves a lot of time. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-repeat-taboo-on-marine-radio/72352/28 "2014-09-10T12:30:02Z")
But after that he still says “Over and out”, right ? _ducks away from beercan barrage_ ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-repeat-taboo-on-marine-radio/72352/29 "2014-09-10T13:56:35Z")
> [@debater](#): > > I’m not sure, but I think the person who is, in reality at the time, commanding a specified unit is called ‘actual’, short for ‘actual commander’, because if the initial commander is killed or incapicitated, the next in rank takes over, and becomes the actual commander, and so on. I am saddened that a one time drive-by adds nothing to the subject guesswork purveyor should sully the term “debater.” ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-repeat-taboo-on-marine-radio/72352/30 "2014-09-10T14:19:06Z")
> [@Spiny\_Norman](#): > > …Interesting - we used phonetic P (“Papa”) to denote that it was, in fact, the guy behind the callsign on the air. Always giggled at the paternal overtones… > **[A Father to His Men - TV Tropes](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AFatherToHisMen)** > > This commander cares deeply about their men and exhibits it constantly. A mentor to the officers under them, they take a deep personal interest in their welfare and try to keep them out of harm's way. They would never say "We Have Reserves" … ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-repeat-taboo-on-marine-radio/72352/31 "2014-09-10T14:30:15Z")
You don’t use ‘repeat’ because that word is assigned a different meaning, and you have been issued the phrase ‘say again’ if that’s what you need. Apart from that, this is basic communication theory. To compensate for errors on a noisy channel, you add extra bits of redundancy. Hence “niner” instead of nine, and so forth. The more padding, the clearer the message, at the expense of message brevity. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-repeat-taboo-on-marine-radio/72352/32 "2014-09-10T14:39:53Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Late to the party, but there are a few things that can use corrections: > But first, as stated in a few other posts, the word REPEAT is a specific request. It does not mean “say that again, I couldn’t hear you”, it means - > “_6-54. Repeat. REPEAT can be given during adjustment or FFE missions. During Adjustment REPEAT means firing another round(s) with the last data and adjust for any change in ammunition if necessary. REPEAT is not sent in the initial call for fire. > 6-55. During FFE, REPEAT means fire the same number of rounds using the same method of FFE as last fired. Changes in the number of guns, the previous corrections, the interval, or the ammunition may be requested_” (Army FM 3-9.30 Observed Fire). Pete and RePete were in a tank. Both died horribly. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-repeat-taboo-on-marine-radio/72352/33 "2014-09-10T15:27:16Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > But after that he still says “Over and out”, right ? > > _ducks away from beercan barrage_ Roger. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-repeat-taboo-on-marine-radio/72352/34 "2014-09-10T15:46:05Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > But after that he still says “Over and out”, right ? > > _ducks away from beercan barrage_ > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Roger. that would be roger dodger. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-repeat-taboo-on-marine-radio/72352/35 "2014-09-10T15:53:32Z")
In some army training scenarios, the instructors would throw an artillery simulator (big bang, no shrapnel) anytime some used “repeat” on the radio. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-repeat-taboo-on-marine-radio/72352/36 "2014-09-10T18:33:19Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Roger. Over. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-repeat-taboo-on-marine-radio/72352/37 "2014-09-10T18:42:28Z")
That’s _Oveur_. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-repeat-taboo-on-marine-radio/72352/38 "2014-09-10T18:59:44Z")
What’s our vector, Victor? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-repeat-taboo-on-marine-radio/72352/39 "2014-09-10T20:34:11Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Roger. Huh? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-repeat-taboo-on-marine-radio/72352/40 "2014-09-12T02:38:42Z")
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