# Use of the word "Retarded" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 4, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680 "2010-02-04T16:05:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/21 "2010-02-04T19:39:53Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > The offense is because Rahm’s use of a “retarded” was implicitly referring to retarded people and the connotation was that the idea was bad because it was like those people. His usage was not referring to any of its other meanings. So I agree that it’s not as offensive as “nigger”, which is explicitly insulting, but it still offensive. I don’t think so - references to “fucking retarded” ideas have nothing at all to do with handicapped people, any more than they do to people who have sex. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/22 "2010-02-04T20:00:43Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I don’t think so - references to “fucking retarded” ideas have nothing at all to do with handicapped people, any more than they do to people who have sex. I think they do. If you say, “That’s a retarded idea”, you’re saying “That’s an idea a retarded person would have.”, i.e., “That’s a stupid idea.” “Retarded” only has the connotation “stupid” when you’re referring to people. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/23 "2010-02-04T20:09:31Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > He was explicitly referring to an idea. An idea can be “retarded” of its own accord with no need to reference mentally handicapped people to gain the meaning. If there were no mentally handicapped people on the whole planet, if they never existed and we never contemplated such a thing, Emanuel’s phrasing would still make sense. > [@begbert2](#): > > I don’t think so - references to “fucking retarded” ideas have nothing at all to do with handicapped people, any more than they do to people who have sex. I think it’s very unlikely that Rahm’s use of “fucking retarded” was intended to mean “very delayed”. Have you ever heard anyone using those words together when talking about how slow something is? He meant that the ideas were “very stupid”. And the use of the word “retarded” to mean “stupid” is by comparison to retarded people. The comparison is negative, so those people are insulted. Note that “fucking” in this case is an intensifier, similar to “very”. It has nothing to do with sex. I’m kind of surprised this is controversial. In American usage, “fucking retarded” has a clear meaning. I could see debating whether or not retarded people should be insulted by the usage, but it there’s no doubt that it does refer to them. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/24 "2010-02-04T20:19:11Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I’m kind of surprised this is controversial. In American usage, “fucking retarded” has a clear meaning. I could see debating whether or not retarded people should be insulted by the usage, but it there’s no doubt that it does refer to them. Let’s see what the word is defined as: > [@](#): > > Main Entry: re·tard·ed > Pronunciation: \ri-ˈtär-dəd > Function: adjective > Date: 1895 > > sometimes offensive : slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development or academic progress > > SOURCE: [Merriam-Webster Online](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/retarded) So, for this and to plug in the definition above, we get: “That idea is fucking limited in intellectual development.” We talk about developing ideas so it does not need to refer to people at all. If someone said, “Obama is a big poopyhead” one might say that statement lacks intellectual development. Basically, “You didn’t think this fucking thing through very well.” ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/25 "2010-02-04T20:29:57Z")
ug, I hate this whole discussion, I started a thread about this awhile back, the term you are looking for (thanks helpful dopers) is euphemism treadmill. if he had said Fucking Moronic it wouldnt even have registered even though moron is just an old term for retarded, same with idiotic, imbecilic, and several others. people who cant separate the word used to describe (in this case) and idea from a group of people are imho morons themselves. (yeah I see what I did there) ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/26 "2010-02-04T20:43:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Main Entry: re·tard·ed > Pronunciation: \ri-ˈtär-dəd > Function: adjective > Date: 1895 > > sometimes offensive : slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development or academic progress > > SOURCE: Merriam-Webster Online You make my point. “slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development or academic progress” is referring to retarded people. Ideas don’t have intellectual or emotional development. Ideas don’t have academic progress. Saying “an idea is retarded” is making a direct association with retarded people. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/27 "2010-02-04T21:17:36Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > You make my point. “slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development or academic progress” is referring to retarded people. Ideas don’t have intellectual or emotional development. Ideas don’t have academic progress. Saying “an idea is retarded” is making a direct association with retarded people. Nonsense. To be sure an idea has to be a product of an intellect. That said I can call an idea stupid without thinking the person is stupid. Perhaps the person said something off-the-cuff without much thought or perhaps they lack expertise and miss critical elements or or perhaps they lack other knowledge you are privy to which changes things or perhaps they were lazy that day or perhaps they were drunk or perhaps they had a brain fart or perhaps they were emotional. Whatever the case the idea can be poor while the person behind it may well be a highly intelligent person. As such I can absolutely refer to an idea being retarded without referring to anyone or any group of people. The idea itself possesses the quality; nothing else. As language “idea” is the noun and “retarded” is the adjective modifying that noun. It stands by itself with no need to reference people to make it work. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/28 "2010-02-04T21:23:41Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > As **Hentor** mentioned upthread, I think it’s improtant to keep in mind the source of the usage of the term. It is clear that he wasn’t using it denotatively but in a pejorative sense. As such, I can understand how some overly sensitive person might be offended. That might make his choice of words as a person in the public eye a poor choice since he should be aware that there are people out there offended by it. As much as it’s common knowledge that it’s used as a pejorative, I think it’s as common to know that some people take offense at it. Thus, I think he has a hard time saying he couldn’t know it might offend people, unlike the infamous “niggardly” incident. However, that just makes him poor at projecting a good public image, I don’t think it inherently makes using the word wrong. Niggardly is a legitimate word although few people know it’s definition so political correctness displaces ignorance. A more accurate comparison would be to refer to a poorly repaired object as being niggar-rigged. “Retarded” is working it’s way through the politically correct dictionary of polite conversation. At this point it’s use should probably generate some form of apology as a matter of protocol for anyone representing the White House. Rahm Emanual is a horses ass with a history of presenting himself as such. This may be an opportunity for President Obama to cut him loose in favor of someone with a talent for bringing people together instead of the mafia mentality of Rahm. The way he has treated his own party members makes him unloved in his own house. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/29 "2010-02-04T21:41:14Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > As such I can absolutely refer to an idea being retarded without referring to anyone or any group of people. The idea itself possesses the quality; nothing else. > As language “idea” is the noun and “retarded” is the adjective modifying that noun. It stands by itself with no need to reference people to make it work. The problem with your position is that none of the definitions for “retarded” (neither the one you cited, nor any on [this page](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/retarded), for example) describe a pejorative usage of it that does not refer to people. Meaning can change over time, but I’ve seen no evidence that the current usage of “retarded” as an insult refers to anything other than retarded people. And Rahm’s phrase “fucking retarded” makes clear that he was using the pejorative sense. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/30 "2010-02-04T21:58:25Z")
> [@A.Selene](#): > > What word is that? Nice? Nougat? Oh, you mean nigger. > > For christ’s sake people, we’re all adults. We can say and/or type inappropriate words without the world falling down around us. I can’t stand it when people take being politically correct to an extreme, and even uttering a word in non-pejorative contexts is somehow harmful. This bothered me more in my college classes than anywhere else. You can be having a stimulating conversation, with people liberally sprinkling their vocabulary with curses as they passionately argue for something, but when it comes to identifying how a certain group of people were called in the US in the past while arguing about history or language it’s… **The N-Word**! I understand what you’re saying but I don’t really want to say that word. I feel it is a uniquely repulsive word. I know I know, I can say a lot of other things without feeling bad for it but for some reason this one makes me pause. Call it good education, bad propaganda, whatever, but I rather keep calling it the N word. That’s not to say in moments of frustration or anger I won’t whip it out, but hey, it’s my post and I’ll refer to it how I want 😛 ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/31 "2010-02-04T21:59:34Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > You make my point. “slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development or academic progress” is referring to retarded people. Ideas don’t have intellectual or emotional development. Ideas don’t have academic progress. Saying “an idea is retarded” is making a direct association with retarded people. You are altering the definition to serve your own preconceptions. There is a difference between “uneducated person” and “handicapped person”, and the definition _explicitly_ refers to the former. The word is referring to stupidity. Not any specific _kind_ or _source_ of stupidity, such as a physical handicap; just generic ordinary anybody-may-apply stupidity. It doesn’t refer to handicapped people any more than “That’s a tall tower” is describing the tower in reference to tall people. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/32 "2010-02-04T22:02:41Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > As such I can absolutely refer to an idea being retarded without referring to anyone or any group of people. The idea itself possesses the quality; nothing else. Right. But the word “retarded” only means “stupid” when you’re referring to people. You’re right that when you tell somebody, “That’s a retarded idea”, you’re not saying that the person you’re talking to is mentally retarded, but you wouldn’t use the term “retarded” to refer to an idea if we didn’t already use “mentally retarded” to refer to stupid people. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/33 "2010-02-04T22:09:42Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Right. But the word “retarded” only means “stupid” when you’re referring to people. You’re right that when you tell somebody, “That’s a retarded idea”, you’re not saying that the person you’re talking to is mentally retarded, but you wouldn’t use the term “retarded” to refer to an idea if we didn’t already use “mentally retarded” to refer to stupid people. There a difference between stupid people and mentally handicapped people, though. Referring to the former is _not_ an automatic reference to the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/34 "2010-02-04T22:12:11Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > And Rahm’s phrase “fucking retarded” makes clear that he was using the pejorative sense. Doubtless he wanted to convey to the people who put that idea forth his low opinion of them. Apart from whether you should belittle people at all though is the notion that this somehow has Emanuel invoking Palin’s child using that child to belittle the people he was talking to. As noted above he could have said “moronic” or “imbecilic” and Palin would not have blinked despite these originally being words used to describe mentally handicapped people. The point here is Palin and others co-opting the word (granted she did it for cheap political points but as mentioned above others take issue as well). Bottom line is we need a word (or words) to describe the condition of being mentally handicapped. Being mentally handicapped is an undesirable trait so people will use those words to belittle others. No matter what word you choose though people will glom on to it to throw at others. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/35 "2010-02-04T22:12:52Z")
But when referring to a person, “retarded” means mentally handicapped. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/36 "2010-02-04T22:19:00Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > In Emanuel’s case above (and note I am not interested in his politics here) he was using the word “retarded” to refer to a specific idea and not a group. That a certain class of people have had the term applied to them does not strip the word of its usefulness in other contexts. I find Palin’s objection absurd in this case (and while I have an extreme dislike of Palin I am no fan of Emanuel either and in this case the names could be Smith and Jones and I would say the same thing). So if I referred to a particularly bad repair job as “Polack engineering” that would be fine, since I am referring to the job and not the ethnic group? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/37 "2010-02-04T22:22:31Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > You are altering the definition to serve your own preconceptions. There is a difference between “uneducated person” and “handicapped person”, and the definition _explicitly_ refers to the former. I’m not distinguishing among different kinds of retarded people. That’s not important to my point that the pejorative sense of “retarded” refers to people. > [@](#): > > The word is referring to stupidity. Not any specific _kind_ or _source_ of stupidity, such as a physical handicap; just generic ordinary anybody-may-apply stupidity. It doesn’t refer to handicapped people any more than “That’s a tall tower” is describing the tower in reference to tall people. Yes, you’re making my point–“retarded” refers to people. And when the word is used in an insulting way, those people who are associated with the word could very well be insulted. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Doubtless he wanted to convey to the people who put that idea forth his low opinion of them. > > Apart from whether you should belittle people at all though is the notion that this somehow has Emanuel invoking Palin’s child using that child to belittle the people he was talking to. > > As noted above he could have said “moronic” or “imbecilic” and Palin would not have blinked despite these originally being words used to describe mentally handicapped people. > > The point here is Palin and others co-opting the word (granted she did it for cheap political points but as mentioned above others take issue as well). > > Bottom line is we need a word (or words) to describe the condition of being mentally handicapped. Being mentally handicapped is an undesirable trait so people will use those words to belittle others. No matter what word you choose though people will glom on to it to throw at others. I have no disagreements with this. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/38 "2010-02-04T22:22:56Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > So if I referred to a particularly bad repair job as “Polack engineering” that would be fine, since I am referring to the job and not the ethnic group? If you said that, you’d be totally D’abled. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/39 "2010-02-04T22:42:05Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I’m not distinguishing among different kinds of retarded people. That’s not important to my point that the pejorative sense of “retarded” refers to people. > > Yes, you’re making my point–“retarded” refers to people. And when the word is used in an insulting way, those people who are associated with the word could very well be insulted. “Retarded” refers to _stupid_ people. As people figured out that there was a medical reason for some people to be stupid, the label “retarded”, among others, was hung on the specific subgroup of stupid people that had a medical excuse for it. Over time most of the other terms for this have reverted to their original purely pejorative/descriptive use; retarded is still commonly used to describe the handicapped, but it remains an adjective that was _co-opted_ for this use, not created for it. Now, if you were complaining about the similar word “retard”, then you _would_ be right, because as far as I can tell that formulation _does_ specifically and exclusively refer to handicapped people. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/40 "2010-02-04T23:17:20Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > “Retarded” refers to _stupid_ people. As people figured out that there was a medical reason for some people to be stupid, the label “retarded”, among others, was hung on the specific subgroup of stupid people that had a medical excuse for it. Over time most of the other terms for this have reverted to their original purely pejorative/descriptive use; retarded is still commonly used to describe the handicapped, but it remains an adjective that was _co-opted_ for this use, not created for it. Yes, that very nice, and completely irrelevant to my point. It doesn’t matter what the past usages were, or what non-insulting usages are now–in current American usage, when “retarded” is used pejoratively (as it was in this case) it is referring to people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680.md?page=3)