# Use of the word "Retarded" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 4, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680 "2010-02-04T16:05:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/41 "2010-02-04T23:28:10Z")
So… everybody’s okay with the White House Chief of Staff saying “fucking”, and “retarded” is offensive? Seriously? 'Cause, my granny wouldn’t have thought so. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/42 "2010-02-05T00:22:32Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Yes, that very nice, and completely irrelevant to my point. It doesn’t matter what the past usages were, or what non-insulting usages are now–in current American usage, when “retarded” is used pejoratively (as it was in this case) it is referring to people. Except I don’t think this is true. “Retarded” refers to stupidity, not handicapped people. Retarded ideas are stupid ideas, not “imagine a retarded person - a person with down’s syndrome, say, and that business plan of yours? It’s like the down’s syndrome kid guy would have come up with.” The path to insult doesn’t go “retarded”-\>handicapped people-\>stupid; it’s “retarded”-\>stupid, with no pit-stop in pittsburg. But I’ve reached a point where I’d want to check the etymology of the word’s usage to mean “stupid” before I argue this any further. At worst the word is like “idiot” - its use to refer to stupid people may have once been exclusively used in reference to the villiage idiot. In which case there might be some smaller weight to your position. Well, as long as you’re offended by idiot _too_ anyway. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/43 "2010-02-05T00:46:54Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Except I don’t think this is true. “Retarded” refers to stupidity, not handicapped people. Retarded ideas are stupid ideas, not “imagine a retarded person - a person with down’s syndrome, say, and that business plan of yours? It’s like the down’s syndrome kid guy would have come up with.” The path to insult doesn’t go “retarded”-\>handicapped people-\>stupid; it’s “retarded”-\>stupid, with no pit-stop in pittsburg. That’s what I was going to say, when I say “retarded” I don’t go around thinking “oh dear, I need an insult. Oh, hey, I remember those kids in the special ed classes… what were they called? Retarded, right! This idea is like something those losers would come up with!” No, I just think “hey, the word retarded fits here, it means the idea is ‘stupid’ in a rather glaring and shortsighted way.” I don’t have any ill intention towards anyone mentally handicapped in any way, the words have separated in their uses now. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/44 "2010-02-05T01:56:31Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > The DSM IV contains the diagnosis of Mental Retardation. Services are still provided under the terms MH/MR for mental health or mental retardation. So, it is not correct to say that their use has no place whatsoever. If one were to diagnose someone as having an IQ under 70, what term should one use to describe them? they would be [morons.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_H._Goddard) > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Goddard used the terms moron for those with an IQ of 51-70, imbecile for those with an IQ of 26-50, and idiot for those with an IQ of 0-25 for categories of increasing impairment. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/45 "2010-02-05T05:00:31Z")
Some day we won’t be able to say “handicapped”. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/46 "2010-02-05T15:13:05Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Except I don’t think this is true. “Retarded” refers to stupidity, not handicapped people. … But I’ve reached a point where I’d want to check the etymology of the word’s usage to mean “stupid” before I argue this any further. > [@Jragon](#): > > No, I just think “hey, the word retarded fits here, it means the idea is ‘stupid’ in a rather glaring and shortsighted way.” I don’t have any ill intention towards anyone mentally handicapped in any way, the words have separated in their uses now. Well then, cite, please? The ones linked to earlier in this thread do not support the connotation of “retarded” being simply “stupid”. Maybe you’re right and a new sense of the word exists. I haven’t seen any evidence myself, but I don’t keep up with the latest slang. Heck, I try to a find a cite for you myself. [Here’s one.](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=retarded) It’s not an especially good cite, since the definitions are all user-contributed, but it shows you’re not alone in using “retarded” to mean simply “stupid”. Looks like this word is in flux. (See definition 9–“retarded” has made a full cycle and is an in-group complement.) It’d still be nice to have a more rigorous cite. ---
**Author:** ![horhay\_achoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@horhay\_achoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/horhay_achoa)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/47 "2010-02-05T15:29:23Z")
It is such a waste of time attacking words. Until the sentiment behind the word is changed, there will just be another word to replace it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/48 "2010-02-05T15:43:30Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > So… everybody’s okay with the White House Chief of Staff saying “fucking”, and “retarded” is offensive? Seriously? 'Cause, my granny wouldn’t have thought so. I’m okay with him saying “fucking,” and I’m okay with him fucking. (I’d prefer he not do that in public.) I’m on board with wanting politicians not to use language that is seen as insulting to their own constituents. But the things they do and the concepts they express are more important than the words they use. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/49 "2010-02-05T16:21:58Z")
For those wanting the etymology I found this: > [@](#): > > **retarded** > 1810, pp. adj. from retard. In childhood development sense, “mentally slow,” attested from 1895 (cf. It. tardivi). > > **retard (v.)** > late 15c., from Fr. retarder (13c.), from L. retardare (see retardation). The noun is recorded from 1788 in the sense “retardation, delay;” from 1970 in offensive meaning “retarded person,” originally Amer.Eng., with accent on first syllable. > > **retardation** > early 15c., “fact or action of making slower in movement or time,” from L. retardationem, from retardare “to make slow, delay, keep back, hinder,” from re-, intensive prefix, + tardare “to slow” (see tardy). > > SOURCE: [Search 'retarded' on etymonline](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=retarded&searchmode=none) So, looks to me like the root of the word existed as meaning “slow” and was later applied to mentally handicapped people. ---
**Author:** ![runcible\_spoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc29f/32.png) [@runcible\_spoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runcible_spoon)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/50 "2010-02-05T20:53:49Z")
It seems to me that it’s entirely beside the point whether or not retarded as applied to an idea is in fact a convoluted reference to mentally retarded people. I mean, the only slur I can really imagine on retarded people there is that they’re, well, stupid. And when you’re talking about a group of people whose sole defining characteristic is, well, stupidity… Logically, I can’t really get all worked up about it. That said, how much people are offended has pretty much fuck-all to do with logic. The fact is, you’re going to piss people off if you use the adjective ‘retarded’. So, don’t do it. Use stupid, or idiotic, or moronic (all of which are pretty synonymous), and no one gets upset. ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/51 "2010-02-06T06:27:47Z")
> [@](#): > > The DSM IV contains the diagnosis of Mental Retardation. Services are still provided under the terms MH/MR for mental health or mental retardation. So, it is not correct to say that their use has no place whatsoever. If one were to diagnose someone as having an IQ under 70, what term should one use to describe them? > > Part of the problem is that mental retardation is defined by IQ. It is also, as I believe anyone would agree, undesirable to have a low IQ When referring to someone with intellectucal issues in writing, I usually refer to them as MR. The term I HATE is developmentally delayed, as its inaccurate. DD is too broad of a term. It can mean anything from someone with severe-profound intellectucal issues to mild intellectucal issues to a smart person who has CP but has two or more limitations on the adaptive skills scale. It can even include Asperger’s or learning disabilites. Actually in order to be dx as MR, you need to have an IQ under 70 AND two or more deficts in adaptive skills. It’s not just an IQ number. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/52 "2010-02-06T12:47:52Z")
> [@runcible\_spoon](#): > > It seems to me that it’s entirely beside the point whether or not retarded as applied to an idea is in fact a convoluted reference to mentally retarded people. I mean, the only slur I can really imagine on retarded people there is that they’re, well, stupid. And when you’re talking about a group of people whose sole defining characteristic is, well, stupidity… Logically, I can’t really get all worked up about it. > > That said, how much people are offended has pretty much fuck-all to do with logic. The fact is, you’re going to piss people off if you use the adjective ‘retarded’. So, don’t do it. Use stupid, or idiotic, or moronic (all of which are pretty synonymous), and no one gets upset. I agree with your conclusion here. I can’t understand the passion some people have in defending the slang use of words like “retarded” and “retard.” As I said in another live thread: > [@](#): > > My brother Bill is mentally retarded. He’s a sweet guy, if a bit fearful. He can’t walk down the street of our community when the local high school lets out because the kids get a kick out of tormenting him, and he does not stand up for himself. He might run, or he might cry, but he won’t fight back. I have witnessed many people who had no problem calling him a retard to his face (I, on the other hand, am not reluctant to stick up for him, but I’m not always there). Most people aren’t so aggressively, directly cruel. But if you accept using people like my brother as a handy way to show your contempt, you’re contributing to such an environment, whether you mean to or not. > > I don’t buy that people aren’t using retarded people as the reference point when they use such phrases, in the vast majority of such instances. And I’ve actually had people justify it by offering some form of “but retards are stupid,” as if that should remove any offense taken. “Imbecile” may have lost its clinical connotation, but “mentally retarded” has not. It means something. It refers to a group of people who most need our protection. It refers to people who are viewed and treated by many as subhuman. It refers to my brother Bill. I know that makes it subjective and personal for me. So be it. Please don’t use such phrases, and don’t trivialize them. For some of us, when it’s used as a derisive phrase, it is no different than “nigger” or “kike.” Later in that thread: > [@](#): > > … using such terms is hurtful to the mentally retarded and their families \ Does every other phrase pale in comparison to the simple elegance of “fucking retarded”? Why is there such passionate devotion to this wording? It hurts a group of people who don’t need any more hurt. Why does it need more explanation than that? …which is basically what you’ve concluded. I don’t know why the debate is more complicated than that. And I am NOT a supporter of most things PC–quite the contrary. But if most others could see the tears and pain I have seen over such things, from a group of people who are weak and most need our protection, I believe they’d change their minds. It really is such a “WTF?” issue for me. Just use a different word, man. Does anyone really want to take a position of “fuck the pain the mentally retarded and their families feel about this, I really like that word”? Unfortunately, some do. There are those who have argued that no other phrase could possibly do the job that “fucking retarded” does. None. “Retard” and “retarded” (as Emanuel used it) use the mentally retarded as a frame of reference for contempt. The word isn’t insulting unless we are to understand that the mentally retarded are benchmarks for a certain type of ridicule. Whether or not anyone thinks the comparison apt in a given situation, does anyone disagree that this would feel hurtful, that it sucks to be a touchstone for ridicule? Use a different word. You cannot understand how marginalized the mentally retarded feel. People won’t shake their hands, won’t speak to them, don’t know what to make of them when they encounter them. It’s like a friggin’ Martian just walked into the room. Use a different word, for Pete’s sake. I do take exception with your notion that mental retardation is an equation with stupidity, which I mention because you seem like a reasonable guy. No one denies that the mentally retarded, by definition, have cognitive challenges. But I have known many with remarkably consistent common sense. Certainly there are borderline mentally retarded people who you might have trouble detecting. My point is that beliefs such as, “Well, of course they are all stupid” are bigoted and contribute to the abusive culture that the mentally retarded suffer. And believe me, it’s real. Take a cruise through some of the threads on this very board to see the value some people assign to “the 'tards.” ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/53 "2010-02-06T16:00:33Z")
I wonder what dimwits like Palin would say if Rahm actually referenced retarded people and defended his right to call them that? Because apparently that’s what Limbaugh did [Delicious irony](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts1114) So Palin called Emmanuel’s remarks hurtful and is comparable to the N word, and then called for Obama to fire him. I wonder if she’s going to ask Clear Channel to do any kind of punishment for Limbaugh. I’m not holding my breath. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/54 "2010-02-06T16:06:55Z")
Well said, **Stratocaster**. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/55 "2010-02-06T16:07:32Z")
Limbaugh’s use is worse. There was nothing off-handed or off-the-cuff about it. More than that, he was specifically describing the mentally retarded (not using them as a point of comparison). He was making a deliberate point, and he was an asshole about it. Rahm apologized, which was the right thing to do. Limbaugh will not, I’m sure. If Palin sees Limbaugh as different, she’s a hypocrite and is betraying her son for politics. ---
**Author:** ![runcible\_spoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc29f/32.png) [@runcible\_spoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runcible_spoon)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/56 "2010-02-06T16:41:31Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > I do take exception with your notion that mental retardation is an equation with stupidity, which I mention because you seem like a reasonable guy. No one denies that the mentally retarded, by definition, have cognitive challenges. But I have known many with remarkably consistent common sense. Certainly there are borderline mentally retarded people who you might have trouble detecting. My point is that beliefs such as, “Well, of course they are all stupid” are bigoted and contribute to the abusive culture that the mentally retarded suffer. And believe me, it’s real. Take a cruise through some of the threads on this very board to see the value some people assign to “the 'tards.” You’re right; I didn’t mean to imply that anyone with any mental retardation is completely unintelligent. Just that mental retardation means some (not necessarily a high) level of stupidity. And, I have to admit, I don’t really have much experience with mental retardation, so I’ll bow to your knowledge. Plus, I feel like a bit of an ass even using the word stupid to refer to people, so I’m gonna shut up now. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/57 "2010-02-06T16:55:48Z")
> [@runcible\_spoon](#): > > You’re right; I didn’t mean to imply that anyone with any mental retardation is completely unintelligent. Just that mental retardation means some (not necessarily a high) level of stupidity. And, I have to admit, I don’t really have much experience with mental retardation, so I’ll bow to your knowledge. Plus, I feel like a bit of an ass even using the word stupid to refer to people, so I’m gonna shut up now. No sweat. Like I said, IMO, you came to a reasonable conclusion, and you get points for having decent inclinations. 😉 > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Well said, Stratocaster. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/58 "2010-02-07T05:29:58Z")
Strat, yes you’re right. There are “smart” MR kids. > [@](#): > > Retarded" doesn’t mean “disabled person” You know what I hate? The euphnism of disabled for intellectucal disabilites. Disabled can mean all sorts of issues, and very few of us are not bright. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/59 "2010-02-07T17:23:22Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Limbaugh’s use is worse. There was nothing off-handed or off-the-cuff about it. More than that, he was specifically describing the mentally retarded (not using them as a point of comparison). He was making a deliberate point, and he was an asshole about it. Rahm apologized, which was the right thing to do. Limbaugh will not, I’m sure. > > If Palin sees Limbaugh as different, she’s a hypocrite and is betraying her son for politics. This should probably come as no surprise but say hello to the hypocrite: > [@](#): > > But the former governor went to great and sometimes awkward lengths to insist that when conservative talk show host Rush Limbaugh used the same exact term to describe the same exact group, it was simply in the role of political humorist. > > “They are kooks, so I agree with Rush Limbaugh,” she said, when read a quote of Limbaugh calling liberal groups “retards.” “Rush Limbaugh was using satire … . I didn’t hear Rush Limbaugh calling a group of people whom he did not agree with ‘f-ing retards,’ and we did know that Rahm Emanuel, as has been reported, did say that. There is a big difference there.” > > SOURCE: [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/07/palin-considering-2012-ru\_n\_452602.html](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/07/palin-considering-2012-ru_n_452602.html) ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680/60 "2010-02-07T17:26:19Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > This should probably come as no surprise but say hello to the hypocrite: And a liar as well. Emanuel didn’t call anyone “fucking retards.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-word-retarded/527680.md?page=2)