# Use the earth's electrostatic field to charge a car battery? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 29, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-the-earths-electrostatic-field-to-charge-a-car-battery/178359 "2003-05-29T20:40:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-the-earths-electrostatic-field-to-charge-a-car-battery/178359/41 "2018-08-11T00:31:19Z")
What the heck is a “negative flow”? A flow in the other direction? Other than what? If your ammeter says you have a negative flow, then just swap the leads on it, and now it’s positive. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-the-earths-electrostatic-field-to-charge-a-car-battery/178359/42 "2018-08-11T00:49:12Z")
Feynman [wrote](http://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/II_09.html), > [@](#): > > Another thing that can be measured, in addition to the potential gradient, is the current in the atmosphere. The current density is small—about 10 micromicroamperes crosses each square meter parallel to the earth. The air is evidently not a perfect insulator, and because of this conductivity, a small current—caused by the electric field we have just been describing—passes from the sky down to the earth. 10 picoamperes = stick with the solar cell ---
**Author:** ![wjbeaty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c0e974/32.png) [@wjbeaty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wjbeaty)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-the-earths-electrostatic-field-to-charge-a-car-battery/178359/43 "2018-08-11T18:49:10Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > 10 picoamperes = stick with the solar cell Actually it becomes much larger for sharp-point electrodes, and for high elevation. The e-field guides the charge-flow, and for a very tall pointy wire, the field lines from the tip will spread out and bend upwards, intercepting a quite large area of sky-currents. In the 70s Dr. O. Jefimenko was able to run his foil/plastic electrostatic motors using some tens of yards of fine wire lifted by a large balloon… [http://blog.modernmechanix.com/the-amazing-motor-that-draws-power-from-the-air/](http://blog.modernmechanix.com/the-amazing-motor-that-draws-power-from-the-air/) Here’s a guy who recently built Jefimenko motors with his 3D printer, then [lifted the wire using his quadcopter!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhXxSAv6rMg) (YT video) The “Sky Voltage” might be good for charging a HV capacitor, but incredibly inefficient at charging batteries. The ladder might give some nanoamperes at 500 volts. What you really want is a taller “antenna,” intercepting some microamperes at 50KV or higher. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-the-earths-electrostatic-field-to-charge-a-car-battery/178359/44 "2018-08-11T19:12:34Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Are scalar weapons for real? They’re 1920’s-style “Death Rays”. ---
**Author:** ![johnmuslelewicz\_yahoo.com](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f04885/32.png) [@johnmuslelewicz\_yahoo.com](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnmuslelewicz_yahoo.com)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-the-earths-electrostatic-field-to-charge-a-car-battery/178359/45 "2018-08-12T15:37:10Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Well, you clearly aren’t a Professor of English… > > All electrons lack “positivity” - that’s their nature. they are carriers of negative charge. And, once again, if you are thinking about batteries, which use chemical reactions to create electron flow (current), that is irrelevant to the discussion of harvesting current due to atmospheric potential differences due to height above the ground. Sorry positrons do exist physical phact. Say do you think we could swirch to a mpre modern language than that arachic ‘english’ you mention, which isn’t really a language anyway. How about mayan? Or aztec? ---
**Author:** ![johnmuslelewicz\_yahoo.com](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f04885/32.png) [@johnmuslelewicz\_yahoo.com](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnmuslelewicz_yahoo.com)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-the-earths-electrostatic-field-to-charge-a-car-battery/178359/46 "2018-08-12T15:42:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > What the heck is a “negative flow”? A flow in the other direction? Other than what? > > If your ammeter says you have a negative flow, then just swap the leads on it, and now it’s positive. A negative flow is a flow that flows back into the source. A positive flow flows into the load. Those are engineering terms used to designate hand rules in technical electricity problems. The issue is both earth snd iron are natural grounds so current has tendencies to always flow to either direction not into the load. ---
**Author:** ![johnmuslelewicz\_yahoo.com](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f04885/32.png) [@johnmuslelewicz\_yahoo.com](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnmuslelewicz_yahoo.com)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-the-earths-electrostatic-field-to-charge-a-car-battery/178359/47 "2018-08-12T15:49:00Z")
> [@wjbeaty](#): > > Actually it becomes much larger for sharp-point electrodes, and for high elevation. The e-field guides the charge-flow, and for a very tall pointy wire, the field lines from the tip will spread out and bend upwards, intercepting a quite large area of sky-currents. In the 70s Dr. O. Jefimenko was able to run his foil/plastic electrostatic motors using some tens of yards of fine wire lifted by a large balloon… > > [http://blog.modernmechanix.com/the-amazing-motor-that-draws-power-from-the-air/](http://blog.modernmechanix.com/the-amazing-motor-that-draws-power-from-the-air/) > > Here’s a guy who recently built Jefimenko motors with his 3D printer, then [lifted the wire using his quadcopter!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhXxSAv6rMg) (YT video) > > The “Sky Voltage” might be good for charging a HV capacitor, but incredibly inefficient at charging batteries. The ladder might give some nanoamperes at 500 volts. What you really want is a taller “antenna,” intercepting some microamperes at 50KV or higher. You can also loop your current flow in an attempt to to use metal wire inductice to profuce a steady flow from a bridge. Since you have both emf and reverse emf going you are knocking out 99.99999% of your attempt to produce anything. Maybe instead of concept rafting on eengleese language a class on static engineering might help. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-the-earths-electrostatic-field-to-charge-a-car-battery/178359/48 "2018-08-12T15:59:52Z")
> [@johnmuslelewicz\_yahoo.com](#): > > Maybe instead of concept rafting on eengleese language a class on static engineering might help. **Moderator Note** I said to cut the snark. Further remarks of this kind may be subject to an official warning. Unless you dial it back you are going to find your posting career here a short one. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-the-earths-electrostatic-field-to-charge-a-car-battery/178359/49 "2018-08-12T16:22:31Z")
> [@johnmuslelewicz\_yahoo.com](#): > > A negative flow is a flow that flows back into the source. A positive flow flows into the load. Those are engineering terms used to designate hand rules in technical electricity problems. “Negative flow” and “positive flow” are not engineering terms; these phrases are never used by EEs. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-the-earths-electrostatic-field-to-charge-a-car-battery/178359/50 "2018-08-12T17:18:03Z")
Hmm. Instead of a ladder could I just haul a few square meters of sheet metal to the top of a building along with my battery and tie into the lighting arrestors for the ground? I know that things could get messy during a thunder storm, but I imagine I can set up a shunt do handle the occasional lightning strike. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-the-earths-electrostatic-field-to-charge-a-car-battery/178359/51 "2018-08-12T20:40:09Z")
Every circuit has current flowing both into and out of the source, and both into and out of the load. ---
**Author:** ![johnmuslelewicz\_yahoo.com](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f04885/32.png) [@johnmuslelewicz\_yahoo.com](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnmuslelewicz_yahoo.com)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-the-earths-electrostatic-field-to-charge-a-car-battery/178359/52 "2018-08-12T21:55:09Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > “Negative flow” and “positive flow” are not engineering terms; these phrases are never used by EEs. I suppose you mean de-greed electrical, electronic, and technicians. Those are usually called ‘managers’. ---
**Author:** ![johnmuslelewicz\_yahoo.com](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f04885/32.png) [@johnmuslelewicz\_yahoo.com](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnmuslelewicz_yahoo.com)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-the-earths-electrostatic-field-to-charge-a-car-battery/178359/53 "2018-08-12T21:59:15Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > **Moderator Note** > > I said to cut the snark. Further remarks of this kind may be subject to an official warning. Unless you dial it back you are going to find your posting career here a short one. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator I didn’t make this board. I agreed to no terms or to bend to nazi message board spys. Phfffffzzzzzzx…to you. The almighty professor. P.S. you may bow to my attempts at freeing the internet from its clouting ignorance and luddite ways. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-the-earths-electrostatic-field-to-charge-a-car-battery/178359/54 "2018-08-12T22:15:00Z")
> [@johnmuslelewicz\_yahoo.com](#): > > I didn’t make this board. I agreed to no terms or to bend to nazi message board spys. Phfffffzzzzzzx…to you. > > The almighty professor. > > P.S. you may bow to my attempts at freeing the internet from its clouting ignorance and luddite ways. Actually, you agreed to follow the instructions of the moderators when you accepted the registration agreement. Since you seem to be renouncing that agreement, I think we can dispense with your continued presence. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-the-earths-electrostatic-field-to-charge-a-car-battery/178359/55 "2018-08-12T22:15:55Z")
> [@johnmuslelewicz\_yahoo.com](#): > > I didn’t make this board. I agreed to no terms or to bend to nazi message board spys. Phfffffzzzzzzx…to you. > > The almighty professor. > > P.S. you may bow to my attempts at freeing the internet from its clouting ignorance and luddite ways. This should go well. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-the-earths-electrostatic-field-to-charge-a-car-battery/178359/56 "2018-08-13T01:58:42Z")
Dammit! I just made a fresh bucket of popcorn! ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-the-earths-electrostatic-field-to-charge-a-car-battery/178359/57 "2018-08-13T03:59:56Z")
Fun while it lasted… ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-the-earths-electrostatic-field-to-charge-a-car-battery/178359/58 "2018-08-13T04:37:17Z")
He lasted about 50 hours from first post to banning. What’s the record for quickest banning for non-spam accounts? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-the-earths-electrostatic-field-to-charge-a-car-battery/178359/59 "2018-08-13T05:08:04Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > He lasted about 50 hours from first post to banning. What’s the record for quickest banning for non-spam accounts? I’m sure I’ve banned blatant trolls within a minute or two of their first post. You don’t even see those guys. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-the-earths-electrostatic-field-to-charge-a-car-battery/178359/60 "2018-08-13T05:16:50Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > n theory, a space elevator could produce a fair amount of electricity. Enough to run it? Who knows – as nobody has yet been able to build one, nobody knows how much electricity it would take to run. > > But it would need some powerful surge protectors built in. It’s a miles-high lightning rod. It would be hit by lightning frequently, and those are pretty massive surges of electricity. That’s actually good. The battery would charge much faster that way. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-the-earths-electrostatic-field-to-charge-a-car-battery/178359.md?page=2)