# Using blank tapes in the 80's, why no RIAA lawsuits? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 14, 2010, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-blank-tapes-in-the-80s-why-no-riaa-lawsuits/550227 "2010-08-14T08:49:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![qpw3141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/6bbea6/32.png) [@qpw3141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qpw3141)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-blank-tapes-in-the-80s-why-no-riaa-lawsuits/550227/41 "2010-08-16T15:07:55Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > > [@mhendo](#): > > > > Is there a case where someone has been found to have violated copyright by creating a backup for their own personal use? > > Has there been a case where this has been declared fair use? > > The law does not allow a fair use exemption for archive copies except for libraries. Period. [Read the law](http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107). > > Now, if no one decided to sue someone over the issue, that’s one thing. But it’s quite another to claim a right that you do not have under the law. I don’t think he was saying you have a legal right. Just that there is no risk. AFAIK there has **never** been any instance of someone being sued or punished for making a copy of an album and giving it to other people one at a time or accepting such a copy. (And if their has it obviously hasn’t been publicised which would make it pretty pointless). That was the case for open reel tapes, cassette tapes and is now the case for digital copies. The record companies are inconsistent (and, it appears, largely brain dead). They went ape over the Russian ‘AllofMP3’ site and eventually got it closed down. But since then any number of similar sites have sprung up (and it’s a fair bet that at least one is using the AllOfMP3 music database) and it’s all gone quiet. They’ve been operating happily for years. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-blank-tapes-in-the-80s-why-no-riaa-lawsuits/550227/42 "2010-08-16T15:08:41Z")
You say “only libraries can create a backup for fair use,” but the library exemption (or “limitation on exclusive rights”) isn’t even the section pertaining to fair use (107). Libraries have their own exemption (section 108). When people claim “fair use,” they are indeed talking about section 107, which states: > [@](#): > > [T]he fair use of a copyrighted work…for purposes **such as** criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include — > > **(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;** > > (2) the nature of the copyrighted work; > > (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and > > **(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.** (bolding mine) I bolded the parts that seem most important to the topic at hand. The “such as” and “including” phrases indicate that the purposes given are not an exhaustive list of all possible purposes for rightful duplication. Each duplication must be evaluated by the given criteria. So if I make a backup copy of a CD for _my own use or archival purposes_, it’s pretty clear that the nature of the copy is not for commercial purposes; the “nature and character” of my copy is simply to protect my own investment in the recording. Additionally, since such a backup copy is not distributed to others and I have already purchased the work, the effect my copy has on the market and the value of the copyrighted work is negligible. It simply will not affect the market at all as it sits on a disk on my shelf. It could very well be that the RIAA/MPAA/whoeverAA has just never decided it’s been worth it to take such an issue to court, but that simply proves that such copying does not affect point (4) to any considerable degree. If it’s not worth it to go to court, how much could it really be affecting the market value of the work? Furthermore, a specific exemption is made in a later section for duplication of archive copies of computer software. Not that it has anything to do with music, but I suspect that section was written later, after there _had_ been a little debate/discussion over the legality of personal duplication of music recordings. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-blank-tapes-in-the-80s-why-no-riaa-lawsuits/550227/43 "2010-08-16T17:08:40Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Has there been a case where this has been declared fair use? > > The law does not allow a fair use exemption for archive copies except for libraries. Period. [Read the law](http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107). > > Now, if no one decided to sue someone over the issue, that’s one thing. But it’s quite another to claim a right that you do not have under the law. I’m well aware of the law, which is precisely why i asked the question. You asserted that, in the US: > [@RealityChuck](#): > > Only libraries can create a backup for fair use, not individuals. Then you tell me to read the law, but nowhere in the Fair Use section of Title 17 are libraries even mentioned. They have, as **troub** accurately points out, their own section in which certain rights are outlined, but those rights are not part of the Fair Use section of copyright law. Furthermore, as **troub** ’s post also suggests, your definitive assertion that individuals are not allowed to make backups for personal use ignores the fact that the Fair Use standards were intentionally written in such a way as to allow for rather broad interpretation, and that in every case where the issue appears before the courts, the courts have to balance _all four factors_ in order to make a determination regarding Fair Use. Given the non-specific nature of the Fair Use section of Title 17, and given the fact that every individual case needs to be judged by weighing all four Fair Use factors, and given the absence of any actual cases in which precedent has been set in this matter, it is a misrepresentation to argue that individuals are not allwoed to make a backup copy for personal use in the United States. Of course, the content producers themselves have been inconsistent on this issue, and have tended to make whatever arguments they thought would serve their interests. In the [MGM v. Grokster](http://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcripts/04-480.pdf) (pdf) case back in 2005, MGM’s lawyer Don Verrilli said: > [@](#): > > And let me clarify something I think is > unclear from the amicus briefs. The record companies, my > clients, have said, for some time now, and it’s been on > their Website for some time now, that it’s perfectly > lawful to take a CD that you’ve purchased, upload it onto > your computer, put it onto your iPod. However, in a [filing](http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2006/reply/11metalitz_AAP.pdf) (pdf) they made regarding the DMCA less than a year later, the recording industry turned around and said that this wasn’t actually a matter of Fair Use, just a matter of them _authorizing_ copies under certain circumstances: > [@](#): > > Nor does the fact that > permission to make a copy in particular circumstances is often or even “routinely” granted, see C6 at 8, necessarily > establish that the copying is a fair use when the copyright owner withholds that authorization. In this regard, the > statement attributed to counsel for copyright holders in the Grokster case, see id.,is simply a statement about > authorization, not about fair use. The courts themselves have also made clear that copying for personal use is an issue that has not yet been definitely settled. In a case last year ([Real v DVD-CCA](http://www.eff.org/files/filenode/RealDVD/Real%20v%20DVD-CCA%2C%20PI%20Order%20081109.pdf) - pdf) that dealt with the DMCA’s ban on circumventing copy protection schemes, the US District Court in California’s Northern District said: > [@](#): > > So while it **may well be fair use for an individual consumer to store a backup copy of a > personally-owned DVD** on that individual’s computer, a federal law has nonetheless made it illegal > to manufacture or traffic in a device or tool that permits a consumer to make such copies. Bolding mine. If there had been some definitive ruling, either way, on personal backup copies as Fair Use, i’m pretty sure the court would have said something about it, rather than skipping past the issue like that. In sum, i’m not arguing that any and every court in the land would find that making a backup copy for personal use is indeed Fair Use. But, in the absence of actual rulings on the issue, it is also incorrect to make a proclamation that such copying is _not_ Fair Use. And, as **troub** notes, the very absence of legal decisions on this issue suggests that the content industry itself is either not worried about it, or believes that it would lose if it took the issue to court. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-blank-tapes-in-the-80s-why-no-riaa-lawsuits/550227/44 "2010-08-16T17:59:57Z")
Here’s something hot off the presses that may be relevant to this thread: [Lowly cassette has a kind of rebirth](http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/music/100655379.html?elr=KArksD:aDyaEP:kD:aUt:aDyaEP:kD:aUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU) ---
**Author:** ![Fridgemagnet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/22d042/32.png) [@Fridgemagnet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fridgemagnet)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-blank-tapes-in-the-80s-why-no-riaa-lawsuits/550227/45 "2010-08-16T22:02:21Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > There was a big enough anti-taping campaign back then, remember the stupid ‘Home taping is killing music’ line? What an inspired campaign that was ([tapeskull-and-crossbones pic](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_BwxbNapP2es/Sw6vnYuP2hI/AAAAAAAAAVE/AyKLH_mbVec/s400/home_taping_is_killing_music_and_its_illegal.jpg)) - I particularly loved the snivelling “and it’s illegal” byline. I have stolen this image for use as a logo on a bootleg label. It works well. Agreed that pre-recorded tapes were appalling quality. Partly this was due to the poor quality of the tape itself (and to a lesser extent the cassette shell), but mostly it was because they were recorded at very high speeds, in fact at speeds higher than the actual specified bandwidth of the recording head. The source signal was given a bit of extra high-frequency pre-emphasis in an attempt to make the final product slightly less execrable, but with limited results. The criminal thing is, a decent chrome or metal cassette in a decent tape deck will make a real-time recording that rivals CD for quality. Some would say it’s actually better quality, but that’s a debate for another thread. The record companies in the 60s and 70s actually tried copyright protection systems to [prevent vinyl being recorded to tape](http://www.currybet.net/cbet_blog/2008/01/copy-protection-for-vinyl-in-t.php) (the myth is that this came from the Beatles Apple label, probably untrue). Fortunately it didn’t work very well, and died an unmourned death. > [@Princhester](#): > > I rather suspect the record execs knew more about what made them money than you do. They may have been greedy in your view but let’s face it, one man’s “greedy” is another man’s “complying with my duty at law to shareholders”. However, overall, I suspect that they thought long and hard about their actions and profited by them and if so that is hardly stupid or lazy. For “Record Exec”, read “Talentless Scumfuck Parasite Who’s Had It Easy For Way Too Long Bleeding Their Artists Dry And Whose Only Concession To Creativity Is Pondering Which Disagreeable Orifice To Shove The Next Line Of Coke Up”. But I guess “Record Exec” is snappier. There are some execs who have an appreciation of talent and make an honest living by doing the best for their artistes, but sadly they’re the exception that prove the rule. I am experiencing delicious schadenfreude seeing their profits flowing away like water, for they are loathsome scum fit only for extermination, and now it’s payback time for all the years of exploiting their talent and customers both. Sadly the musicians are feeling the pain too, and the RIAA have resorted to their traditional bullying tactics and upped the ante by attempting to crush the occasional bewildered student downloader. Talking of Fair Use copies, don’t expect modern formats to last for very long. A brand name CD-R copy will last about a couple of years at room temperature (longer if stored in the cool and dark). I have tapes that are 20 years old and still sound as good (or as bad,delete as applicable) as when they were recorded, while just about all of the CDs I recorded more than a couple of years ago are no longer playable. This is not due to scratches, it’s chemical degradation of the recording dye and substrate. If you want a longer-lasting CD, use a proper “CD-Audio” CD-R, they’re much more robust. They’re also much more expensive, partly because of the higher quality, and partly because in the formative period of the CD-R standard the RIAA insisted in taking a cut in every disc sold to go into their royalties pot. Also thanks to the RIAA, if you have an audio CD recorder (not a PC drive, a proper hi-fi recorder) it won’t record to a normal royalty-free CD-R, it will only take a CD-R Audio. If you decide to archive your collection to mp3 or similar, then good luck hanging onto that data over the years ahead. Buy vinyl, it lasts for decades. Meandering back to the OP, the RIAA would have loved to have sued everyone who taped an album back in the day, but they didn’t have the means to really catch anyone. Occasionally live-gig-bootleggers would be targeted and run off their market stalls, but that was about as far as they could go. But they are, and always have been, a shower of utter bastards, and have never shown any intention of deviating from this path. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-blank-tapes-in-the-80s-why-no-riaa-lawsuits/550227/46 "2010-08-17T00:10:59Z")
> [@Fridgemagnet](#): > > For “Record Exec”, read “Talentless Scumfuck Parasite Who’s Had It Easy For Way Too Long Bleeding Their Artists Dry And Whose Only Concession To Creativity Is Pondering Which Disagreeable Orifice To Shove The Next Line Of Coke Up”. But I guess “Record Exec” is snappier. There are some execs who have an appreciation of talent and make an honest living by doing the best for their artistes, but sadly they’re the exception that prove the rule. I am experiencing delicious schadenfreude seeing their profits flowing away like water, for they are loathsome scum fit only for extermination, and now it’s payback time for all the years of exploiting their talent and customers both. Plus also they eat newborn babes, rape beloved grandmothers and, I have it on good authority, are poopy heads. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-blank-tapes-in-the-80s-why-no-riaa-lawsuits/550227/47 "2010-08-17T03:10:59Z")
> [@Fridgemagnet](#): > > Talking of Fair Use copies, don’t expect modern formats to last for very long. A brand name CD-R copy will last about a couple of years at room temperature (longer if stored in the cool and dark). I have tapes that are 20 years old and still sound as good (or as bad,delete as applicable) as when they were recorded, while just about all of the CDs I recorded more than a couple of years ago are no longer playable. This is not due to scratches, it’s chemical degradation of the recording dye and substrate. If you want a longer-lasting CD, use a proper “CD-Audio” CD-R, they’re much more robust. They’re also much more expensive, partly because of the higher quality, and partly because in the formative period of the CD-R standard the RIAA insisted in taking a cut in every disc sold to go into their royalties pot. I beg to differ. CD-Rs (music) and CD-Rs (data) differ only in the royalties paid by the music ones to artists like Elton John, who as we all know, are starving. The material is no different. If you want CDs (or DVDs) to last, keep them out of light and extreme temperatures. I have some CDs from 20 years ago that are perfect, but I left one out on the desk, with INdirect sunlight, and it changed color and became unreadable over a year. One in direct, daily sunlight, deteriorated noticeably in a few months. However, I have some 65 year-old audio tapes that are in perfect shape. It’s less due to the age than the material and storage. ---
**Author:** ![Fridgemagnet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/22d042/32.png) [@Fridgemagnet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fridgemagnet)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-blank-tapes-in-the-80s-why-no-riaa-lawsuits/550227/48 "2010-08-17T22:23:18Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > …CD-Rs (music) and CD-Rs (data) differ only in the royalties paid by the music ones to artists… Quite right, if you drop the “only” - there are many technical differences ([“CD-R Audio discs are not the same as as CD-R data discs that play audio”](http://www.srtl.co.uk/srtl/report.html)). In the interests of disclosure, I currently earn an honest crust as a freelance electronic designer, but back in the day I spent 4 years working for Philips on the development of recordable DVDs, about 9 months of which was on secondment to Philips Optical Storage in Eindhoven in the Netherlands, where I had the privilege of working with the guys who invented CD. Every day I would walk past the world’s first CD player, in a dusty little display cabinet. I also had the great honour of being trained for a bit by Prof Klaas Robers (here’s a patent of his on [encoding surround sound onto CD](http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?WO=2001093266&IA=EP2001005197&DISPLAY=STATUS)), who between all the technical training would tell us great anecdotes\* about the pioneering days. It was RIAA muscle that insisted that audio CD recorders would only record to special royalty-inclusive discs, or else the music industry wouldn’t support the format. Fortunately some engineers are public-spirited (ever wonder how magical workarounds exist to make DVD players region-free?), and one of the early audio CD recorders would record to ordinary CD-Rs if you inserted an Audio CD-R first, let it read the table of contents (TOC), and then poked a paperclip into the emergency drawer release, opened it just a tad, took the Audio CD-R out and replaced it with a standard one. I have two audio CD recorders, one Philips, one Sony, but alas I’m not aware of any such workaround for these particular models, and they will only record to Audio CD-R or RW discs. What I sometimes do is record to an Audio CD-RW, and then copy this on a PC to a cheaper disc. Unless it’s precious material I want to keep for a long time, in which case it’s archived straight onto an Audio CD-R. These special discs are great for archiving valuable non-audio data too, but for best results should be written to at 1X speed as they’re optimised for real time recording. I quite agree with **Musicat’s** CD lifespan observations. Amateur vegetable gardeners are fond of hanging up unwanted CDs to scare birds away\*\*, and I can indeed confirm that left out in the sun, wind and rain they will physically start to fall apart within a couple of months. Yup, cool and dark storage is best. A distinction should be made between the different types - CD-RW discs are the most delicate, followed by CD-R, then the relatively robust stamped CD. Even the latter will fall apart in the end - I don’t know where the otherwise wonderful Kat Bjelland gets her CDs manufactured, but all my Babes in Toyland and Katastrophy Wife CDs are rapidly corrupting, while the corresponding vinyl will outlast me. 65-year-old playable tape is pretty remarkable, if you could discover the secret the archivists would beat a path to your door. The Earth’s magnetic field acts to slowly wipe magnetic media, but this is a very slow process, and most of the damage is physical disintegration. 80s popster Thomas Dolby\*\*\* found some of his old master tapes recently, and [restored them in his domestic oven](http://blog.thomasdolby.com/?p=710) rather than pay EMI a fortune for the same essential process done in their labs. My old tapes seem to be faring better, the odd detached felt pad notwithstanding, which is more than I can say of any of my tape players. They are all on the ever-growing pile of Things I Must Get Around To Fixing When I Have Time. > [@Princhester](#): > > I have it on good authority, [the RIAA] are poopy heads. Steady on! _I_ was holding back! - Most of the oft-quoted CD anecdotes (5-guilder-cent hole, minimum length of Beethoven’s 9th, Red Book/Orange Book standards) are true; here’s another one. Recordable CDs were invented at a party after a chance remark from a music studio engineer to a Philips engineer on how it would be great if only one could record to those new CD things. They weren’t originally meant for public consumption at all, and were just for use in big professional recording studios. \*\* Don’t actually do this! CD-Rs and RWs contain very nasty heavy metals in the dye layer, and this will poison the soil, your crops, and you. Even stamped CDs contain aluminium, linked to early onset Altzheimer’s. \*\*\* Talking of being sued in the 80s, Dolby Laboratories (they of the tape hiss reduction systems) sued Thomas Dolby for copyright infringement of the name. But they were at least good enough to drop the lawsuit when he showed them his birth certificate. ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Boods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@Ms\_Boods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms_Boods)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-blank-tapes-in-the-80s-why-no-riaa-lawsuits/550227/49 "2010-08-17T22:41:09Z")
> [@Fridgemagnet](#): > > Amateur vegetable gardeners are fond of hanging up unwanted CDs to scare birds away\*\*, and I can indeed confirm that left out in the sun, wind and rain they will physically start to fall apart within a couple of months. Confirmed: there are, in small, but lovingly kept, allotments in the south of England, crows being frightened off, by among other things, _The Best of Bowie_, _Thick as a Brick_, and the occasional Prince CD. > [@Fridgemagnet](#): > > \*\*\* Talking of being sued in the 80s, Dolby Laboratories (they of the tape hiss reduction systems) sued Thomas Dolby for copyright infringement of the name. But they were at least good enough to drop the lawsuit when he showed them his birth certificate. This reminds me of tangled web of litigation woven by the Rutles: ‘In the midst of all this public bickering, “Let it Rot” was released as a film, an album, and a lawsuit. In 1970, Dirk sued Stig, Nasty, and Barry; Barry sued Dirk, Nasty, and Stig; Nasty sued Barry, Dirk, and Stig; and Stig sued himself accidentally.’ ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Boods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@Ms\_Boods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms_Boods)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-blank-tapes-in-the-80s-why-no-riaa-lawsuits/550227/50 "2010-08-17T22:50:00Z")
Oops – sorry for the double post, past the editing window. I meant to add that I should note though, that the majority of the CDs hanging up on the runner bean frameworks and scarecrows’ hats are freebies given away in the post, in magazines, and the _Guardian_ newspaper, and it’s pretty obvious which are the cheaply made ones, and which are unwanted commercial pressings, as even my untrained eye can see how badly the cheap ones have degraded. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-blank-tapes-in-the-80s-why-no-riaa-lawsuits/550227/51 "2010-08-17T23:29:53Z")
[QUOTE=Fridgemagnet;] \*\*\* Talking of being sued in the 80s, Dolby Laboratories (they of the tape hiss reduction systems) sued Thomas Dolby for copyright infringement of the name. But they were at least good enough to drop the lawsuit when he showed them his birth certificate. [/QUOTE] Actually, this has the ring of an urban legend. While it’s true that Thomas Dolby was sued by Dolby laboratories, and settled the suit on the condition that he only call himself “Dolby” in connection with his musical career, his birth name is Thomas Morgan Robertson. He acquired the Dolby monicker in high school because he was always carrying around a cassette recorder. [Thomas Dolby’s stage name](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Dolby#Stage_name) ---
**Author:** ![Fridgemagnet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/22d042/32.png) [@Fridgemagnet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fridgemagnet)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-blank-tapes-in-the-80s-why-no-riaa-lawsuits/550227/52 "2010-08-18T20:01:03Z")
Thanks **cochrane** , there’s a lesson there in always finding a cite for an old anecdote. If you’re a Thomas Dolby fan then you might like this from the BBC - [The Art of Re-mastering](http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00s3h40). I have it on mp3 somewhere, drop me a line if you’d like to hear it. TD discusses his home tape baking in one part. Also, here’s the recipe: [If I Knew You Were Coming, I’d Have Baked a Tape](http://www.wendycarlos.com/bake%20a%20tape/baketape.html). ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-blank-tapes-in-the-80s-why-no-riaa-lawsuits/550227/53 "2010-08-18T21:06:27Z")
Hmmm, I bought a Born In The USA Cd in 1985, and it still played when I re-ripped it a year or two ago; my Beethoven’s 9th from 1985 ripped fine this year… Similarly, even Windows 98 CD’s are useable. I’ll have to see how old my recorded CD’s are and what still works - but most of the apocalypic warnings seem to be overhyped. Digital is fine as long as you make backup copies and keep recopying onto the modern media as they come along. It’s the ancient stashes suddenly re-found that will have problems being recovered. (Anyone still have a punch card reader? Paper punch tape? 5-1/4 floppy? 8-inch floppy?) And of course, come the end of civilization, loss of electricity, and all our knowledge is toast. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-blank-tapes-in-the-80s-why-no-riaa-lawsuits/550227.md?page=2)