The capacity of the M1911 is seven in the magazine plus one in the chamber but the latter was considered unsafe. The M9 that replaced it has a capacity of fifteen in the magazine, later bumped to seventeen in the M9A3. I don’t know enough about them to comment whether one in the chamber might be dangerous or not.
It’s still common for laws or regulations to be phrased ‘pistol or revolver’. It dates from when revolvers were introduced and distinguished from pistols, which meant the single shot muzzle loaders used up till then, before there were automatic* pistols. Even in 1935, long after the introduction of automatics, Julian Hatcher (famous gun author) still titled his work “Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers”. I agree though that in common modern usage ‘pistol’ can refer to an automatic pistol, revolver or single shot pistol. I just don’t think you can say ‘pistols and revolvers’ is wrong exactly.
Speaking of state laws, that’s what generally prohibits or makes it more difficult to license private security carrying other than ‘pistols or revolvers’, IOW pistols, handguns. Also some states limit ammunition, like no .357 Magnum ammo, though a guard can have a .357 revolver loaded with .38 Special ammo. I don’t know of a state law requiring revolvers and prohibiting automatic pistols for private security guards. It’s possible that insurance company preference might explain guards carrying revolvers in some cases though, they may feel less potential to fire a lot of rounds lowers liability without compromising the mainly deterrent purpose of insuring armed security guards at all.
*somewhat similar here, references to ‘semi-automatic pistols’ have been non-negligible only in the last 20 yrs or so per Google ngrams, which confirmed my sense of it. Prior to that (one shot per trigger pull) ‘automatic pistols’ were almost always (not quite always) referred to that way in English. Unusual full automatic capable pistols, not submachine guns, like the Schnellfeuer version of the Mauser C96, a notable weapon in the 1930’s especially in China, were not common enough to cause confusion. I think ‘semi-automatic pistol’ may come from the gun control context, to make handgun and rifle terminology more consistent for non-gun people.
I own both, but my personal concealed carry these days is a Ruger LCR (lightweight compact revolver) because it is easier to wear all day if I need to and very reliable (less likely to jam).
My LCR holds 5 rounds, and I carry 6 more, which is plenty for most real-world shoot outs and to scare off someone or something that threatens me. I mostly wear it when hiking as a “Plan C” if I encounter an aggressive bear, mountain lion, wolf or dog. “Plan A” is to back away slowly and not engage, “Plan B” is to use bear spray and then hope that deters an attack… “Plan D” is to drop to the ground and roll up into a ball when you run out of ammunition and the animal keeps charging.
The main issue is whether the gun’s firing pin is in place on a live round. That was originally the justification for not carrying a revolver with all chambers loaded or a semi-automatic with a round chambered. Most handguns of modern make have a safety that disengages the firing pin so it cannot strike a round until the safety is off.
P.S., the increased capacity of the M9 is mostly due to using a somewhat smaller 9mm cartridge rather than the M1911’s .45 caliber.
A lot of security companies, even the larger ones, run on shoestring budgets. If they had a bunch of of revolvers from back in the day they’re going to keep using them instead of retooling. A properly maintained firearm can last virtually forever. This is the story I got from several different higher ups in local security firms.
Can’t find a cite but there used to be something called “The rule of 3” (or something like that) in that police firefights involved a total of 3 rounds fired, 3 yards or less, 3 seconds or less, and only 3% of gun fights fell outside those statistics. Under that rule a five or six shot revolver is adequate. But it probably is not true any more.
Not that I’m a revolver guy. My first issue weapon was a Smith .357 (model 66 IIRC) and I hated it. Kicked like a mule with full 158 grain rounds and after multiple firing that cylinder gets damn hot. Plus speed loaders are a PITA. My first semi-auto was a Ruger P85 in 1989 and I never looked back.
We sell very few revolvers at our shop except for hunting.
The 1911 pistol is perfectly safe to carry with a round in the chamber and the hammer cocked (condition 1) provided the thumb operated safety is engaged. do discharge the round, the thumb safety must be disengaged and the grip safety must be depressed.
The M9A3 can also be safely carried with a round in the chamber. When the hammer is cocked, pushing the thumb operated safety to the “safe” condition disengages the firing pin and de-cocks the hammer. In this position, the trigger is completely inoperable.
The weapon can not be fired until the thumb operated safety is returned to the “fire” mode. This releases the trigger and the weapon can be fired by a long trigger pull, much like the pull of a double action revolver.
Go back even further, to the Newhall Massacre involving the California Highway Patrol, in 1970. Newhall incident - Wikipedia Though that didn’t change their sidearm for about 15 years, it did start the ball rolling in people’s heads that maybe six and a reload wasn’t going to cut it anymore in a gunfight. Miami’s big lesson was to not take pistols to a rifle fight, and to improve terminal ballistic performance of handgun ammunition. Which led to the FBI briefly trying 10mm Auto, going Ow! Ow! Ow! at the recoil, thence .40, and then back to 9mm, once bullet technology caught up.
As for the OP, my guess is those revolvers were the cheapest overall way to arm their officers. Now, it’d probably be police Glock .40 S&W tradeins. Which work just fine. Mostly, I see old farts with revolvers—there’s one HPD or Harris County Sheriff who always works security each year at the rummage sale I like to go to, and she has a beautiful stainless Smith. She’s also 60 if she’s a day.
It used to be that concealed handgun licenses were classified based on whether one qualified with a revolver or semi-auto. Perhaps armed security licenses operated in the same way, and people who’d trained on a revolver didn’t want to change to learning a semi-auto?
Past time, so:
EDIT: Glock also has to take a lot of credit for the adoption of semiautomatic pistols by law enforcement. Their pistols may not have been the most accurate, or powerful, but they were and are ridiculously durable and easy to maintain, required little retraining from a revolver (due to their consistent trigger pull and lack of additional manual safety to manipulate), and were very reliable. Plus, they were sold very inexpensively to police departments.
Why for hunting? And do hunters ever buy semi-automatics?
Three Rangers were charged by the bear that killed and devoured Timothy Treadwell and his girlfriend. One of the guys had “a large caliber hand gun”. The other two had 12 gauge shotguns with slugs. It took all three of them to kill the bear before it got to them.
Of course. But to hunt with a handgun here the barrel has to be at least 5.5 inches long, and most common semi-auto pistols don’t qualify OEM, an after market barrel usually has to be acquired. But there are a lot of revolvers that come with 5.5 inch or longer barrels over the counter.
My original point was for personal carry semi-autos outsell revolvers by a huge margin. At least at my dealership.
Here, it’ll usually be an R4 assault rifle or R5 carbine. Well, actually, one hopes it would be the semi-auto civilian variants.
In addition to the legal requirements pkbites mentioned upthread, revolvers often come in more powerful cartridges than do most semiautomatic pistols. There are exceptions, such as the Desert Eagle, which can be chambered in the typically-revolver cartridges of .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum. The AR family of rifles also has pistol versions, which enable shorter barrels than allowed under the National Firearms Act.
In addition, the 10mm Auto cartridge, as the name suggests, is available in a wider variety of semi-auto pistols, and may be hand loaded to factory .41 Magnum levels. The Glock 20 is a notable semi-auto pistol for this cartridge with a 15+1 shot capacity. Though usually a shorter barrel than the legal requirements listed by pkbites, although longer aftermarket barrels exist. Finally, the largest handgun cartridges of all are usually only available in revolvers or (single-shot pistols, like the Thompson Contender family). Some of the handguns fire what are usually thought of as centerfire rifle cartridges
Anyway, more powerful cartridges enable flatter-shooting trajectories, making range estimation less of a concern. With proper bullet selection—most handgun personal defense bullets expand too readily for use on medium-sized and larger, heavily built game, and most of the handgun ‘hunting bullets’ are made for typical revolver cartridges—more powerful cartridges penetrate deeper… Too rapid expansion may lead to inadequate penetration to reach the heart, lung, and major blood vessels a hunter is trying to hit.
All of those are reasons why a hunter might choose a revolver for handgun hunting.
I’ve heard a recommendation for a revolver for home defense perhaps a decade ago. A large part of that is that a revolver is ‘large’ and may be more intimidating then the more compact guns.
Florida, for the longest time, restricted security guards to carrying only revolvers. It was not legal for any security guard to carry a semi-automatic on duty. It is now permitted. However, it still requires additional training to gain the proper credentials. Because of the costs of the additional training, these guards are going to require a higher salary.
Maybe the OP’s state has something similar going on? Either it isn’t allowed, or it required additional certifications?
Revolvers come in all sizes. I personally have a .44 magnum revolver that is basically, Dirty Harry’s gun, and it probably has a certain amount of intimidation due to its size and style (do you feel lucky, punk?), but a little pocket revolver is just going to make your average criminal giggle.
While you can get ridiculously large revolvers these days (it’s easier to make a huge over-powered revolver than a huge over-powered semi-auto), the average revolver isn’t any larger or more intimidating than the average semi-auto.
And the really big revolvers are painful to shoot and difficult to keep on target.
A revolver has advantages for home defense though.
Revolvers are ridiculously reliable. They don’t jam or misfeed, even with cheap crappy ammo. You can even be very neglectful with regular maintenance and end up with an old, crappy, rusty gun and it will probably still fire.
If you get a dead round that doesn’t fire, just pull the trigger again. A revolver doesn’t rely on the previous round working to cycle to the next round. Every time you pull the trigger, the cylinder rotates. Period.
You point the revolver at the bad guy and pull the trigger, and it goes boom. You don’t have to remember to rack the slide or flip the safety off, which you might forget to do in the heat of the moment with a semi-auto.
A double-action revolver has a heavy trigger compared to a semi-auto (assuming you haven’t cocked the hammer), which makes you less likely to accidentally pull the trigger when you don’t mean to.
Revolvers can also have better ergonomics, because the handle doesn’t have to be filled with rounds and therefore can be formed to any shape desired. A semi-auto that fires big bulky ammo is going to have a big bulky handle to accommodate those rounds.
Revolvers aren’t picky about their ammo. If it fits, it shoots. Semi-autos may not cycle properly with too hot or too light of ammo (this is a bigger issue for some semi-autos significantly more than others).
Revolvers have their disadvantages, too.
Revolvers are slower to load. They do make speed loaders for revolvers, but a lot of folks don’t use them. Then again, it takes a while to reload a magazine for a semi-auto too, so if you don’t have a spare magazine already loaded then the revolver isn’t so bad. With some revolvers you can also have pre-loaded cylinders ready that you can swap out almost as quickly as a magazine.
Revolvers generally hold fewer rounds. It’s very easy to shoot at a paper target on a range. In the heat of the moment under great stress, and against a moving target that is actively evading your shots, it is much more difficult to actually hit what you are aiming at. You’ll probably need more shots than you think you’ll need.
One thing you need to consider for both home defense and for security personnel is what happens if you miss. In a home, those big rounds from your intimidating weapon will go right through drywall, possibly injuring or killing someone you care about. On the street or in a bank, it’s the same general issue, those heavier rounds will go further. Shotguns have the advantage of being deadly up close, but less so at longer ranges, and have lesser penetration through things like drywall. But then shotguns aren’t as easily carried as a pistol in a belt holster.
For intimidation, if someone ever broke into my house I’d be tempted to point one of my old muskets at them. Sure, it only gets one shot, but a 6 foot long, .75 caliber musket is a really big f-ing gun.
Yeah, if you use black powder revolvers as a home defense weapon!
(Quick check)
Yep, I’ve got one of these in the cabinet above my monitor. But it’s sitting right next to one of these, which is the more likely weapon I’d grab if needed.
You can also hunt deer with a handgun in Ohio. The minimum barrel length is 5 inches, and the caliber must be a straight-walled cartridges .357 caliber or larger. A friend of mine goes deer hunting with a S&W 500 with 8 inch barrel and outfitted with a scope. I’ve shot it. Thing is a beast. :eek:
As for the revolver vs. semi-auto discussion, there’s a rather interesting hybrid called an automatic revolver. They seem to be pretty rare. Would like to shoot one someday.
This was true of many states. I used to be in the armed guard business and actually trained some of the new hires. Scared the crap out of me.
Training a guard on a revolver makes a lot of sense, especially when one considers how differently semiautos are operated. Learn how to shoot a Colt or S&W revolver (we used S&W 65s) and you can pretty much shoot and operate any revolver.
Please tell me it includes the bayonet. That will make ANY miscreant conclude this is the wrong house.