# Using rights foolishly--is there such a thing?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-rights-foolishly-is-there-such-a-thing/506963
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 19, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-rights-foolishly-is-there-such-a-thing/506963 "2009-08-19T16:27:23Z")
**Posts on this page:** 7
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-rights-foolishly-is-there-such-a-thing/506963/22 "2009-08-19T23:07:45Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#):
>
> The conversations about people carrying guns to town hall meetings made me comment that it’s legal and should stay legal, but it’s probably a bad idea.
>
> Which started me thinking about why it could be a bad idea. It could be a bad idea obviously if someone does something violent and/or stupid. But is that someone likely to be the person who carried a gun openly to the meeting? Probably not.
>
> So why else could it be a bad idea? Well, it could be a bad idea if it makes gun owners _look_ bad. But wait. If exercising your rights makes you look bad what does that mean? Does it mean we should all only exercise our rights when it’s super important and super relevant? Or should we say that if we have the right to do X or say Y then any doing of X or saying of Y is just as legitimate as another, or just as profound as another?
>
> This came up a few weeks/months ago when a young couple in (I think) college had an abortion party. Some commented that it made the pro-choice side look bad, and while I can’t remember if I commented or what I said I agree that it does make the pro-choice side look bad. But a right that you refuse to exercise because of what people might think can turn into a right that you no longer have because it’s seen as unimportant AND becomes a default win for the other side. They silence you not through the law but through custom _and the end result is that you’re silent_.
>
> We don’t have rights just for the big, important, clever stuff we want to say and do. We have them for the silly little things, too. Trying to get people not to use those rights for the little stuff but save them for the big stuff makes rights into something almost irrelevant to real, every day life. Every day life is about the little stuff, not the big stuff.
>
> So, I have two warring feelings, the idealistic versus the practical.:
>
> 1. You should exercise your rights. If you look silly, so what? Rights don’t wear out and don’t need to be saved up for the big stuff. Making waves is what rights are for.
>
> 2. Don’t make an ass out of yourself exercising your rights. You’ll look bad and make your side look bad, and you may even turn people against you–putting those rights in jeopardy. Making waves just hurts you long-term.
>
> Does anyone else have these two competing ideas struggling for supremacy? Should the practical overpower the idealistic or vice versa?
Wow! It’s gonna be hard work if you’re intending on exercising all of your rights all of the time. You have the right to free speech, therefore you MUST walk up to people in the street and insult them. You have the eight to wlak backwards, so you MUST do that at all times. You have the right to eat nothing but dog food, so it is important that you exercise this right. You have the right to wear womens’ clothing, and so should do so.
You have the right to give all your money to me. Thanks! I’ll look forward to it!
Seriously - having a right to do something doesn’t mean you should do it. And since you have an almost infinite suite of rights, you’re gonna tire yourself out pretty darn quick!
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### Author:  [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-rights-foolishly-is-there-such-a-thing/506963/23 "2009-08-19T23:22:57Z")
> [@Never\_Say\_Dice](#):
>
> All gun owners are foolish, and it’s scary.
Well, that was a useful contribution.
By the way: BOO!
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### Author:  [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2009, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-rights-foolishly-is-there-such-a-thing/506963/24 "2009-08-19T23:30:16Z")
A lot of times people are so apt to prove a point they lose sight of the larger picture.
For instance, when Mr GW Bush was president, we used to have protests on Saturday. They were protesting the Iraq War. This is fine, and within their rights. But long story short, the way they did it 'caused traffic all along Milwaukee Avenue to get backed up. This resulted in shouting and honking and all it did was make people mad that they were distrupting traffic.
No one said “Gee they have a point, they said were saying ‘Get the heck out of the way’.” It was so annoying it made me like GW Bush and hate THEM.
Another example is using Hitler’s photo at the meeting with Barney Frank. I know you’re trying to make a point, but the USA is not now nor has it ever been a repressive regime. If you doubt that for a second, it shows you know nothing about Nazi Germany. And I’d suggest you start reading.
I’m sure there are people here reading my statement above and disagree, I can guarantee you they know nothing about the Nazis or what they do know is horribly incorrect.
When you use Hitler to make a point about an issue, and it is so out of place, not only do you come off as stupid and that lessens your credibility to make any other point, even if your other points are 100% on spot.
The best way to make a point and convince people over to your side, is
1. State your position
2. Allow the opposition to objec
3. Refute the opponents arguments, one by one. And refute ALL of them
Using effective argument can be hard because so many people by into notions like “If he’ll lie about one thing, he’ll lie about anything.” Which is so wrong it’s laughable. Most people (but not all) have a sense of proportion which allows them to see the difference between lying about who murdered someone is very different than lying about who ate the last piece of cake.
But on the flip side, putting Hitler up got that lady much publicity.
I recall Oprah saying that she stopped doing shows about Nazis and KKK and such because all it does is give publicity to those groups and they benefit from it. And I think she had a point.
Everyone has a right to think what they want, but that doesn’t make their beliefs valid.
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### Author:  [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2009, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-rights-foolishly-is-there-such-a-thing/506963/25 "2009-08-19T23:35:57Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#):
>
> The conversations about people carrying guns to town hall meetings made me comment that it’s legal and should stay legal, but it’s probably a bad idea.
>
> 1. Don’t make an ass out of yourself exercising your rights. You’ll look bad and make your side look bad, and you may even turn people against you–putting those rights in jeopardy. Making waves just hurts you long-term.
My thoughts agree most closely with this statement. Rights are also about reasonableness & responsibility. ‘In your face’ use of basic rights, is not productive. It causes people to make ridiculous claims like this:
> [@Never\_Say\_Dice](#):
>
> All gun owners are foolish, and it’s scary.
Even militant bike riders as discussed in the thread below destroy years of good will and reason. The disruption can erode support built up over years, with only a few public tantrums.
> **[Critical Mass bike rides - cool or stupid?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=528501)**
>
> On the last Friday of every month, thousands of bikers would take to the streets here in San Francisco, and various other cities, and ride around downtown for a while. Streets would be blocked off and traffic brought to a halt as the bikers swarm...
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### Author:  [@hobscrk777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hobscrk777)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2009, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-rights-foolishly-is-there-such-a-thing/506963/26 "2009-08-19T23:38:37Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#):
>
> 1. You should exercise your rights. If you look silly, so what? Rights don’t wear out and don’t need to be saved up for the big stuff. Making waves is what rights are for.
>
> 2. Don’t make an ass out of yourself exercising your rights. You’ll look bad and make your side look bad, and you may even turn people against you–putting those rights in jeopardy. Making waves just hurts you long-term.
To me, these aren’t mutually exclusive. It’s possible to exercise your rights to the full degree to which you are entitled, and even make waves on occasion, while still acting responsibly.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2009, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-rights-foolishly-is-there-such-a-thing/506963/27 "2009-08-19T23:53:05Z")
> [@Never\_Say\_Dice](#):
>
> All gun owners are foolish, and it’s scary.
I’m not even a gun owner and I find that statement scary.
:rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2009, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-rights-foolishly-is-there-such-a-thing/506963/28 "2009-08-20T12:34:55Z")
> [@Markxxx](#):
>
> No one said “Gee they have a point, they said were saying ‘Get the heck out of the way’.” It was so annoying it made me like GW Bush and hate THEM.
If you’re running a protest you have to think about issues like inconveniencing people and pissing them off - then again you probably need to inconvenience peopel to get there attention at all. But if this was your reaction, it sounds more like a failing on your part than a screwup by the people who were protesting. 😉
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