# Using Someone Else's Wireless Network \*Is\* Illegal **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 6, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-someone-elses-wireless-network-is-illegal/351633 "2006-04-06T21:48:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-someone-elses-wireless-network-is-illegal/351633/1 "2006-04-06T21:48:52Z")
In several past threads… [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=294176) and [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=311784), for example, the issue of whether or not using someone else’s wireless network without their permission was illegal was hotly debated. Some participants in those threads strongly urged the interpretation that if the wireless network was unprotected, the action was not illegal. Last week, a [story from Illinois](http://www.rrstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060323/NEWS0107/103230036/1004/NEWS) gave the further lie to that interpretation. David Kauchak, was found guilty of remotely accessing another computer system without the owner’s approval. He had found an unprotected wireless network and deliberately connected to it. ---
**Author:** ![shelbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@shelbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shelbo)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-someone-elses-wireless-network-is-illegal/351633/2 "2006-04-06T21:54:36Z")
> [@Bricker's Link](#): > > “Likewise, our residents need to know that it is a crime, punishable by up to a year in jail, to access someone else’s computer, wireless system or Internet connection without that person’s approval.” Sounds like a specific midemeanor statute. This is a law that will shortly be moot, as the model of universal, free wireless internet takes over (see Earthlink and Google’s proposals for San Francisco). Re: the OP - if there is a specific statute that makes it a misdemeanor to use someone else’s wireless internet connection, then there’s really not much to debate. It is interesting to try and come up with a tort claim – is there any actual damage done? ---
**Author:** ![Marathon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Marathon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marathon)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-someone-elses-wireless-network-is-illegal/351633/3 "2006-04-06T21:57:33Z")
I don’t have an issue with the legality of using someone’s wireless network without their permission, so **Bricker** , please pardon this tiny hijack: My tech knowledge may be insufficient, but how is this sort of thing traceable? In the case linked to above, a cop actually found the guy sitting in his car and getting his signal from there. In any other situation, I can’t think of a way it would be traced - how would it be discovered that one individual on their own individual laptop was doing this and could be charged? [No, I’m not asking because I want to do this - I only have a desktop. Just curious.] ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-someone-elses-wireless-network-is-illegal/351633/4 "2006-04-06T21:58:20Z")
> [@shelbo](#): > > Sounds like a specific midemeanor statute. This is a law that will shortly be moot, as the model of universal, free wireless internet takes over (see Earthlink and Google’s proposals for San Francisco). > > Re: the OP - if there is a specific statute that makes it a misdemeanor to use someone else’s wireless internet connection, then there’s really not much to debate. It is interesting to try and come up with a tort claim – is there any actual damage done? There is a general law prohibiting access to a computer or computer network without authorization. I am unaware of a specific law targeting wireless networks. And what makes you think that model of free, universal wireless internet will take over? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-someone-elses-wireless-network-is-illegal/351633/5 "2006-04-06T22:00:36Z")
> [@Barrytown](#): > > I don’t have an issue with the legality of using someone’s wireless network without their permission, so **Bricker** , please pardon this tiny hijack: > > My tech knowledge may be insufficient, but how is this sort of thing traceable? In the case linked to above, a cop actually found the guy sitting in his car and getting his signal from there. In any other situation, I can’t think of a way it would be traced - how would it be discovered that one individual on their own individual laptop was doing this and could be charged? The owner of the network could do an ARP on his network and discover the MAC address of the intruding device. Since hardware MAC addresses are unique, that would at least be a prima facie case against the owner of the device with the offending device. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-someone-elses-wireless-network-is-illegal/351633/6 "2006-04-06T22:01:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The owner of the network could do an ARP on his network and discover the MAC address of the intruding device. Since hardware MAC addresses are unique, that would at least be a prima facie case against the owner of the device with the offending device. Er… the device with the offending MAC interface, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Marathon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Marathon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marathon)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-someone-elses-wireless-network-is-illegal/351633/7 "2006-04-06T22:05:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Since hardware MAC addresses are unique, Ah. That’s the part I didn’t know about. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-someone-elses-wireless-network-is-illegal/351633/8 "2006-04-06T22:06:03Z")
There are six people in my building in that have wireless networks, I am the only one that doesn’t have it password protected. I couldn’t possibly care less if someone uses my network. So is it a matter of pressing charges? Or if joe schmo uses my network and gets busted is he automatically in trouble? By the way, Chicago is also currently taking bids from ISPs to make the entire city wireless…well, I assume just downtown, not the whole city limits. I think it’s fantastic. ---
**Author:** ![DoperChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9a28c/32.png) [@DoperChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoperChic)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-someone-elses-wireless-network-is-illegal/351633/9 "2006-04-06T22:08:00Z")
What if I were to accidentally connect to someone else’s wireless internet thinking that I had actually connected to my own? This is a concern of mine since I live in an apartment complex and have wireless of my own. Let’s say my wireless hub is in the livingroom (which it is), 30 or so feet from my laptop and my neighbor’s hub is in their bedroom, 10 feet from my laptop. Would my laptop automatically connect to their hub since it’s considerably closer? If so, would I be in deep doo doo, even if I didn’t know? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-someone-elses-wireless-network-is-illegal/351633/10 "2006-04-06T22:15:32Z")
This is not intended as legal advice. For legal advice, you must contact a lawyer licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. For purposes of discussion of hypothetical situations, I’d say that a general principle of criminal law is that you must have a guilty mind as well as commit a guilty act. If someone accidentally connects to another network, not knowing what they have done, then I’d say that’s not a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-someone-elses-wireless-network-is-illegal/351633/11 "2006-04-06T22:21:02Z")
> [@DoperChic](#): > > What if I were to accidentally connect to someone else’s wireless internet thinking that I had actually connected to my own? This is a concern of mine since I live in an apartment complex and have wireless of my own. > > Let’s say my wireless hub is in the livingroom (which it is), 30 or so feet from my laptop and my neighbor’s hub is in their bedroom, 10 feet from my laptop. Would my laptop automatically connect to their hub since it’s considerably closer? If so, would I be in deep doo doo, even if I didn’t know? I live in a row of townhouses, and several of my neighbors clearly now have wireless. One of them leaves her hub wide open. One night when, due to all the interference from the other users, I couldn’t get onto my hub, a message popped up asking me if I’d like to connect to hers. I dunno what it’s like on a PC (I use a Mac/AirportX), but I think it should prompt you before you make a connection. You should be able to refuse. Anyway, when I got the prompt, I clicked OK just to see what would happen, and sure enough I could connect. I immediately disconnected, and the next day, when I happened to see her getting into her car, I told her. She said she didn’t know how to enable security, and didn’t seem altogether bothered. After that, my iBook automatically connected to her hub one time when it couldn’t find mine, apparently remembering it as a “trusted network”. I had to tell it not to do that, and now it prompts me, as before. Again, not sure how it works on a Windows machine, but I imagine it’s similar. I have to wonder sometimes what recourse she should have now that she knows anyone can jump onto her hub and use it, and she can’t be bothered to implement basic security. Then again, just because someone refuses to lock their door doesn’t mean I have the right to enter, so there you go. It’s just that in this case the signal is being projected into other domiciles, and if you’re fully aware your connection can be exploited and yet you do nothing, I wonder if any entrapment issues could be involved if one day you should decide to complain. Probably not, but it’s interesting to think about all the same. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-someone-elses-wireless-network-is-illegal/351633/12 "2006-04-06T22:25:22Z")
> [@tiny ham](#): > > I couldn’t possibly care less if someone uses my network. I used to think that until someone pointed out that my neighbor could be using my network to surf kiddy porn. I’m sure I would be able to prove my eventual innocence, but that would be a big fat headache and guilt-by-association whispering campaign I could do without. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-someone-elses-wireless-network-is-illegal/351633/13 "2006-04-06T22:29:34Z")
> [@shelbo](#): > > This is a law that will shortly be moot, as the model of universal, free wireless internet takes over Until that does happen, though, you shouldn’t connect to someone else’s wireless network without their permission. Pay for your own internet connection and wireless router, don’t try to sponge off of mine. If you want to let anyone use your wireless network, that’s fine, but don’t assume that everybody with a wireless network feels that way or should feel that way. Of course, people who _don’t_ want others connecting to their wireless networks should be taking a few basic safety precautions (like using WEP) to keep them from getting in. But even if they’re running a totally open network, you shouldn’t assume that it’s OK for you to use it unless you have the owner’s permission to do so. Just like you shouldn’t open somebody’s unlocked front door and help yourself to the food in their fridge unless you have their permission to do that. Even if and when the free wireless model _does_ take over, some people may still have their own private wireless connections (probably will- I think the business model is to offer basic service for free, and higher-speed service for a fee). The existence of free wireless doesn’t and won’t mean that all wireless networks are or should be free for anyone to use. ---
**Author:** ![shelbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@shelbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shelbo)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-someone-elses-wireless-network-is-illegal/351633/14 "2006-04-06T22:38:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And what makes you think that model of free, universal wireless internet will take over? Articles like [this one](http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=internetNews&storyid=2006-04-06T181559Z_01_N06299298_RTRUKOC_0_US-GOOGLE-EARTHLINK.xml) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-someone-elses-wireless-network-is-illegal/351633/15 "2006-04-06T22:47:30Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > I live in a row of townhouses, and several of my neighbors clearly now have wireless. One of them leaves her hub wide open. One night when, due to all the interference from the other users, I couldn’t get onto my hub, a message popped up asking me if I’d like to connect to hers. I dunno what it’s like on a PC (I use a Mac/AirportX), but I think it should prompt you before you make a connection. You should be able to refuse. Yes it does, yes you are. This is my first wireless-enabled laptop and it doesn’t start looking for _alternative_ sources until I tell it to; not sure if that’s a changeable setting but I like it that way. Let’s say I’m in the airport. I boot up, laptop looks for wire (not there), looks for known wireless networks (not there), gives me two messages for “no wire” and “no known wireless”. I tell it to scan, it does and gives me a list of every accesible network it finds and asks me to choose one. So it’s not like I can enter a network blindly. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-someone-elses-wireless-network-is-illegal/351633/16 "2006-04-06T22:58:44Z")
> [@Anne Neville](#): > > Until that does happen, though, you shouldn’t connect to someone else’s wireless network without their permission. Pay for your own internet connection and wireless router, don’t try to sponge off of mine. I’m all for people protecting their own networks, but one argument against your particular point of view is: “I’ll stop using your unprotected wireless network when you stop it from trespassing on my property.” I think that’s reasonable, morally if not legally. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-someone-elses-wireless-network-is-illegal/351633/17 "2006-04-06T23:08:50Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I’m all for people protecting their own networks, but one argument against your particular point of view is: “I’ll stop using your unprotected wireless network when you stop it from trespassing on my property.” > > I think that’s reasonable, morally if not legally. But not logically. Name one radio-like device in which it is possible to modulate the transmissions to exist only within a user defined space: like all three levels of my house, but not an inch outside of my doors, windows, and walls. When it is technologically possible to do that, then it is a reasonable request. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-someone-elses-wireless-network-is-illegal/351633/18 "2006-04-06T23:14:53Z")
**Ravenman** , you have entirely missed my point. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-someone-elses-wireless-network-is-illegal/351633/19 "2006-04-06T23:18:28Z")
IANAL… But in all the broo-ha-ha about this matter, I’m surprised that the doctrine of “attractive nuisance” hasn’t come up. To oversimplify, if I put a brightly colored swing set in my front lawn, and surround it with a small moat, alligators and a “no trespassing” sign, if a child gets eaten by an alligator while trying to climb on the swing, I can’t escape liability by saying he was trespassing and should have known better, because I have created an “attractive nuisance” with the swing. Even if my action wasn’t intentional, I would be liable. So the analogy would be: If I set up a wireless network that can easily be detected and connected to, I can’t complain that it is being used by unauthorized parties because it could be declared to be an “attractive nuisance.” Not to mention the lack of harm if all the intruder did was use some bandwidth. That kind of argument (and the basis for existing laws) was based on the expensive CPU time and use of years ago. If you computed what downloading a couple of porn pix would cost in CPU cycles from a 24/7 2MB Internet access point, I’ll bet you will be pushing a petty penny in losses. I think, but I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-someone-elses-wireless-network-is-illegal/351633/20 "2006-04-06T23:28:50Z")
> [@shelbo](#): > > Articles like [this one](http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=internetNews&storyid=2006-04-06T181559Z_01_N06299298_RTRUKOC_0_US-GOOGLE-EARTHLINK.xml) And do you not see any difference between San Francisco and, say Wisconsin, with respect to the viability of universal Wi-Fi? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-someone-elses-wireless-network-is-illegal/351633.md?page=2)