# Using The Climate Alarmists' Logic To Prove God
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-climate-alarmists-logic-to-prove-god/786056
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [May 7, 2017, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-climate-alarmists-logic-to-prove-god/786056 "2017-05-07T07:47:26Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2017, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-climate-alarmists-logic-to-prove-god/786056/21 "2017-05-07T14:30:00Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#):
>
> Just as Christianity was created when the Old Testament proved itself wrong, Mormonism seems to have been created when the New Testament proved itself wrong as well.
(Disclosure: I am Christian)
This is wrong: “Christianity was created when the Old Testament proved itself wrong”
This is wrong too: “the New Testament proved itself wrong”
For one with faith, the OT and NT are consistent, coherent, and correct. For staunch unbelievers I’m not trying to convert and convince anyone. But those statements are very wrong.
---
### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-climate-alarmists-logic-to-prove-god/786056/22 "2017-05-07T14:58:48Z")
> [@Bullitt](#):
>
> (Disclosure: I am Christian)
>
> This is wrong: “Christianity was created when the Old Testament proved itself wrong”
> This is wrong too: “the New Testament proved itself wrong”
>
> For one with faith, the OT and NT are consistent, coherent, and correct. For staunch unbelievers I’m not trying to convert and convince anyone. But those statements are very wrong.
Would you say that Japan is or is not the central feature of Earth? For you, as a disinterested third party, would the fact that a Shinto priest might have some rationalization available be likely to change your opinion on whether or not Japan is the central feature of the planet Earth?
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### Author:  [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-climate-alarmists-logic-to-prove-god/786056/23 "2017-05-07T15:23:34Z")
Japan, the central feature of Earth? No. A Shinto priest having information that might change my mind on that? I’d listen.
---
### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-climate-alarmists-logic-to-prove-god/786056/24 "2017-05-07T16:19:33Z")
> [@Bullitt](#):
>
> Japan, the central feature of Earth? No. A Shinto priest having information that might change my mind on that? I’d listen.
Okay, he tells you that the Japanese failed to please the gods, so they reorganized the world to diminish its import, until the Japanese please the gods again.
---
### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2017, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-climate-alarmists-logic-to-prove-god/786056/25 "2017-05-07T16:44:25Z")
Another point, perhaps a lesser point: the people who currently accept climate change didn’t used to. When global warming first arrived on the scientific stage, it was a crackpot theory that not only did not have sufficient evidence, no one knew quite how to go about getting such evidence. Or, more often crucial, how to get the funding necessary to get the data.
Now, we have it. Took far too long to get it, but now a thirty megapage **GIGO** bomb can be dropped on an argument. That is what changed scientific minds. Those who used to sneer, sneer no longer. When was the last time anyone heard of a climate-change scientist changing his mind and deciding there was no such thing as human-provoked climate change?
And how many have made the opposite journey?
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-climate-alarmists-logic-to-prove-god/786056/26 "2017-05-07T16:50:50Z")
Theologians aren’t scientists. There’s no long and proven record of the methods that theologians use actually solving mysteries, revealing facts about existence, etc. There’s no reason to believe they have any better insight into the nature of existence, the universe, or any potential higher powers, than plumbers or electricians.
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### Author:  [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-climate-alarmists-logic-to-prove-god/786056/27 "2017-05-07T16:52:46Z")
> [@Great\_White\_Dope](#):
>
> [INDENT] **Premise I** : 95%+ of theologians believe in God.
Cite?
And do they believe in the same god, analogous to the way 97% of climate scientists accept the same overall scenario of global warming? If they believe in different gods, it would be like if 40% of climate scientists thought the earth was warming, 30% believe it’s cooling, etc.
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### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2017, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-climate-alarmists-logic-to-prove-god/786056/28 "2017-05-07T17:28:18Z")
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> Another point, perhaps a lesser point: the people who currently accept climate change didn’t used to. When global warming first arrived on the scientific stage, it was a crackpot theory that not only did not have sufficient evidence, no one knew quite how to go about getting such evidence. Or, more often crucial, how to get the funding necessary to get the data.
>
> Now, we have it. Took far too long to get it, but now a thirty megapage **GIGO** bomb can be dropped on an argument. That is what changed scientific minds. Those who used to sneer, sneer no longer. When was the last time anyone heard of a climate-change scientist changing his mind and deciding there was no such thing as human-provoked climate change?
>
> And how many have made the opposite journey?
Well, instead of a MOAB _GIGObomb_ 🙂 I have pointed before to this short video of a former skeptical scientist, **who got funding from rich deniers** , he did check the data and even included more past records… only to conclude that yes, the research made before by other climate scientists was indeed solid. Climate Change deniers of humans causing it like Anthony Watts at WUWT had no reply but to **also** deny that he had promised to follow the conclusions of Professor Muller and the BEST team.
**[Richard Muller: I Was Wrong on Global Warming](https://climatecrocks.com/2015/01/09/richard-muller-i-was-wrong-on-global-warming/)**
Just as it is important to deny that the consensus also depends on a preponderance of evidence, deniers of science also deserve to be called deniers because they **also** deny that confirmations by teams of skeptic scientists have been done too. So there was a big lie when the few skeptical scientists left told congress a few weeks ago that we needed a “red” team of scientists to check the issue (of course the Republicans in congress were the ones that continue to swallow the misinformation). The powerful interests behind the few skeptical scientists left only try to perpetuate the idea that there is a big controversy when there is very little of it.
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### Author:  [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-climate-alarmists-logic-to-prove-god/786056/29 "2017-05-07T17:29:40Z")
95% of the people reading this thread think the OP is incorrect.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-climate-alarmists-logic-to-prove-god/786056/30 "2017-05-07T17:33:43Z")
I admire your diplomacy.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-climate-alarmists-logic-to-prove-god/786056/31 "2017-05-07T17:46:38Z")
_Which_ “god”? Which sect’s deity does your premise supposedly bring into existence?
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### Author:  [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2017, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-climate-alarmists-logic-to-prove-god/786056/32 "2017-05-07T17:50:26Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#):
>
> Okay, he tells you that the Japanese failed to please the gods, so they reorganized the world to diminish its import, until the Japanese please the gods again.
I think what Bullitt was trying to say, is that the New Testament wasn’t created because the writers of the New Testament believed that the Old Testament “had proved itself wrong”. The point of the New Testament, for its authors, is that recent events had occurred that fulfilled and expanded on the promises of the Old Testament. The authors wanted to talk about the OT in relation to current events. They didn’t fully discard the OT as false; they expanded on it.
This is not to say - for us in this discussion thread - that the authors of the OT were correct in their understanding of current events, merely to say that this was their historical purpose.
---
### Author:  [@HumbleThinker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumbleThinker)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2017, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-climate-alarmists-logic-to-prove-god/786056/33 "2017-05-07T18:06:51Z")
> [@Great\_White\_Dope](#):
>
> Climate Change Alarmists:
>
> **Premise I** : 97% of climate scientists accept climate change.
>
> **Premise II** : Climate scientists are the experts on climate change.
>
> **Conclusion** : The overwhelming majority of those who most understand climate change, accept climate change. Therefor, it’s almost certain that climate change is real.
>
> Me, using the exact same reasoning:
>
> **Premise I** : 95%+ of theologians believe in God.
>
> **Premise II** : Theologians are the experts on God.
>
> **Conclusion** : The overwhelming majority of those who most understand God, believe in God. Therefor, it’s almost certain that God exists.
>
> Exact. Same. Logic.
>
> I look forward to the flimsy excuses you fine people come up with to explain why the “appeal to expert consensus” reasoning is valid with climate change, yet invalid with God. Give me something good.
No it’s not actually. Your analogy is equivocating experts on something that is observable and testable by all with the faculty to observe it with experts on something that cannot be observed and tested by anyone and that is explicitly supposed to be taken on faith. It equivocates experts whose work can be peer reviewed by anyone with the skills, training, and equipment to do so with experts whose only work that can be peer reviewed in any sense of the word is their proper use of long dead languages and understanding of histories.
In short, your analogy equivocates between experts in concrete matters with experts in abstract matters. There are enough substantial differences that make your analogy inapt.
Also, your overall argument seems to be coming close to not understanding that there is a proper appeal to authority and an improper appeal to authority, the latter of which is a fallacy and not what occurs in proper arguments for the reality of AGW.
---
### Author:  [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-climate-alarmists-logic-to-prove-god/786056/34 "2017-05-07T18:13:51Z")
I’d like to hear more about the 5% of theologians who read the Bible, studied other evidence, and came to the conclusion that God does NOT exist.
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### Author:  [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-climate-alarmists-logic-to-prove-god/786056/35 "2017-05-07T18:50:31Z")
Apart from the postings above, you can add:
- 100% of Jewish theologians believe Jesus was **not** the Son of God
- 100% of Christian theologians believe Jesus was the Son of God
(Neither group have any evidence for their belief.)
P.S. In England and Wales 390,127 people (almost 0.8%) stated their religion as Jedi on their 2001 Census forms, surpassing Sikhism, Judaism, and Buddhism, and making it the fourth largest reported religion in the country.
Feel the Force!
P.P.S. If there is a God, he would weep at the foolish arguments you are using to prove He exists.
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### Author:  [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-climate-alarmists-logic-to-prove-god/786056/36 "2017-05-07T19:10:46Z")
> [@Great\_White\_Dope](#):
>
> I look forward to the flimsy excuses you fine people come up wit
It is a sad world where accepting “Overwhelming amounts of physical evidence” vs a “evidenceless belief in a sky fairy” becomes a ‘flimsy excuse’. Truly, Fox News has won.
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### Author:  [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2017, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-climate-alarmists-logic-to-prove-god/786056/37 "2017-05-07T19:12:25Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#):
>
> I’d like to hear more about the 5% of theologians who read the Bible, studied other evidence, and came to the conclusion that God does NOT exist.
Turns out that Satan has been living below an empty apartment.
---
### Author:  [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-climate-alarmists-logic-to-prove-god/786056/38 "2017-05-07T19:26:23Z")
God is a feeling. Those are kind of hard to “prove” – but maybe neurology will improve to the point that it is possible to.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-climate-alarmists-logic-to-prove-god/786056/39 "2017-05-07T19:30:45Z")
> [@Great\_White\_Dope](#):
>
> Climate Change Alarmists:
>
> **Premise I** : 97% of climate scientists accept climate change.
>
> **Premise II** : Climate scientists are the experts on climate change.
>
> **Conclusion** : The overwhelming majority of those who most understand climate change, accept climate change. Therefor, it’s almost certain that climate change is real.
>
> Me, using the exact same reasoning:
>
> **Premise I** : 95%+ of theologians believe in God.
>
> **Premise II** : Theologians are the experts on God.
>
> **Conclusion** : The overwhelming majority of those who most understand God, believe in God. Therefor, it’s almost certain that God exists.
>
> Exact. Same. Logic.
>
> I look forward to the flimsy excuses you fine people come up with to explain why the “appeal to expert consensus” reasoning is valid with climate change, yet invalid with God. Give me something good.
Which god are you talking about here?
---
### Author:  [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-climate-alarmists-logic-to-prove-god/786056/40 "2017-05-07T19:40:29Z")
> [@eschereal](#):
>
> God is a feeling.
I looked out this morning, and god was gone
Turned on some science to start my day
I lost myself in a familiar double blind, independently replicated study…
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