# Using the "N word" in discussions about the word. Racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 8, 2006, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753 "2006-10-08T23:32:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753/21 "2006-10-09T04:00:34Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] One of our John-Kerry-hating-beyond-the-bounds-of-reason posters once complained about my usage of the word “reta\*\*\*\*” in reference to his behavior, claiming that it was offensive to the mentally disabled. I found his pit thread to be utterly self-serving and ridiculous. But I stopped using the word to describe him anyway. Why not, when there are so many other good words I could to use to describe him? [/QUOTE] And if somebody asked that you not use the word “retarded” while having a discussion about insulting language used against people who are mentally retarded, what would you do? Everybody here agrees that using “nigger” as an insult is beyond the pale. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753/22 "2006-10-09T04:19:57Z")
lol: what did I JUST do? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753/23 "2006-10-09T07:46:22Z")
[QUOTE=monstro] Nigger, nigger, nigger! NIGGER, NIGGER, NIGGER!!! [/QUOTE] Mushroom, _MUSHROOM!_ ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753/24 "2006-10-09T07:47:17Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] Mushroom, _MUSHROOM!_ [/QUOTE] Bravo. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753/25 "2006-10-09T11:39:35Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] Mushroom, _MUSHROOM!_ [/QUOTE] [I had to google this to understand what the hell it meant. I’m so glad I did!](http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/badgers/) ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753/26 "2006-10-09T13:42:47Z")
What about using the word “niggardly”? It’s a perfectly innocuous word, yet whenever I say it I always fear that some ignorant PC policeman - nah, that’s redundant - some PC policeman will take offense. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753/27 "2006-10-09T15:35:58Z")
[QUOTE=athelas] What about using the word “niggardly”? It’s a perfectly innocuous word, yet whenever I say it I always fear that some ignorant PC policeman - nah, that’s redundant - some PC policeman will take offense. [/QUOTE] Actually, that one, single stupid incident of overreaction has been so overplayed in the media, on message boards and news groups, and in bars across the country that I doubt that you could be gigged for it by anyone other than a tiny group of _offendserati_ who have been hiding from the real world for the last two decades. (And that sort of _offenderati_ is more likely to spend so much time reading that they would know what the word actually meant, anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753/28 "2006-10-09T15:44:38Z")
If you are quoting a Dave Chapelle routine or someone who has used it, I think it is pretty silly to say “n-word” when it would be obvious to anyone listening to you that you are not saying it or condoning it, but merely quoting someone. However, I never have understood why other racial epithets are no big deal except this one. Why could George Jefferson call Tom Willis “honky” twice an episode and get big laughs, but the outcry if Tom had ever called him a “nigger” would have been enormous? Why is it ok when NBA player Charles Barkley makes stereotypical white guy comments (can’t jump, dance. etc.) but when golfer Fuzzy Zoeller made a stereotypical black guy joke at Tiger Woods (something about fried chicken) it is a Big Deal? I say get over it with regard to getting upset over any word. Sticks and stones and all. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753/29 "2006-10-09T16:12:33Z")
If you write N\* or N-word, then you are a complete tard\* - short for bastard\*\* \*\*what did you think it was short for? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753/30 "2006-10-09T16:26:42Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] Why could George Jefferson call Tom Willis “honky” twice an episode and get big laughs, but the outcry if Tom had ever called him a “nigger” would have been enormous? [/QUOTE] Because “honky” is such a silly word that was not even prevalent in all black communities of the country (at the time that _All in the Family_ and _The Jeffersons_ were first broadcast) and was actually unknown to the white community, at large, until the middle 1960s. In contrast, nigger was an explicit insult that was widely known and had been hurled at blacks for many decades, specifically as an insult. In the early 1970s, the constrast would have been analogous to some adult refering to a child as a shitstain only to have the child respond “You’re a poopy head.” The terms did not carry equal weight, even if the desire of the person hurling the insult was the same. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753/31 "2006-10-09T16:47:13Z")
**tomndebb** , I like your analysis, but it implies that if I made up right now a silly sounding euphemism for blacks with no historical weight, then it could be used without impugnity, which we all know is not the case. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753/32 "2006-10-09T17:22:47Z")
True. But since the black population, as a minority that has suffered persecution and oppression, is still disparaged and discriminated against in this country, your new word would appear to be an extension of the ongoing persecution while a black using a disparaging word against whites would still be perceived as shouting “doody head!” ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753/33 "2006-10-09T17:46:59Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Because “honky” is such a silly word that was not even prevalent in all black communities of the country (at the time that _All in the Family_ and _The Jeffersons_ were first broadcast) and was actually unknown to the white community, at large, until the middle 1960s. In contrast, nigger was an explicit insult that was widely known and had been hurled at blacks for many decades, specifically as an insult. [/QUOTE] What about “cracker”? If wiki is to be believed, it has deep roots and is no doubt insulting. Nonetheless, the term is frequently used by Chris Rock et al and I have a hard time getting worked up about it. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753/34 "2006-10-09T17:52:05Z")
The odd thing is, is that whites just don’t get worked up about racial epithets like blacks do. I usually laugh when I have ever been called cracker honkie, whitey or whatever, even when the person saying it is trying to offend me. I can’t imagine getting pissed off at even an ethnic slur. that would be a whole other debate, whether blacks are justified at getting so pissed at being called racist names. I guess its just another difference in the races. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753/35 "2006-10-09T17:53:23Z")
> [@](#): > > However, I never have understood why other racial epithets are no big deal except this one. Why could George Jefferson call Tom Willis “honky” twice an episode and get big laughs, but the outcry if Tom had ever called him a “nigger” would have been enormous? Why is it ok when NBA player Charles Barkley makes stereotypical white guy comments (can’t jump, dance. etc.) but when golfer Fuzzy Zoeller made a stereotypical black guy joke at Tiger Woods (something about fried chicken) it is a Big Deal? If white people are willing to experience three hundred years of slavery, followed by two hundred more years of lynching and Jim Crow, followed by an additional few decades of poverty and general discrimination, then they will have earned the right to be offended by the word “honky”. And as a bonus, they’ll be able to sing the blues. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753/36 "2006-10-09T17:54:46Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] I guess its just another difference in the races. [/QUOTE] Or, more likely, the difference between groups who have power and have not suffered persecution and groups who lack power and have suffered persecution, regardless of ethnic background. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753/37 "2006-10-09T18:09:52Z")
What about the Jews? Persecuted for far longer, and just about as recent as Blacks. Take the Mel Gibson deal- a minor outcry at best, and mainly from the movie industry. If Mel had asked the cop “are you a nigger” instead of “are you a Jew”, how would that have gone over? How many marches would there have been in Malibu? Also Jesse Jackson & “Hymietown”- how different would that have been if Joe Lieberman had referred to “Niggertown”? ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753/38 "2006-10-09T18:11:13Z")
**tomndeb** , please disregard my last comment, I see you mentioned “lack power” in your last post, something which would render my comments about the Jews invalid. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753/39 "2006-10-09T18:13:03Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] The odd thing is, is that whites just don’t get worked up about racial epithets like blacks do. I usually laugh when I have ever been called cracker honkie, whitey or whatever, even when the person saying it is trying to offend me. [/quote] Yeah, I think most white people do find those terms amusing. It’s because they aren’t threatening and there’s no real persecution behind them. Although it’s a little surprising to me if you can’t even _understand_ why someone would be pissed about that kind of thing. Can I take a few wild guesses here? You’re a Christian, probably with ancestry in northern Europe, and your family has been in this country for several generations. Tell me if I’m wrong. I’m imagining that you’ve never encountered much real prejudice against you or any group you’re a part of. > [@](#): > > that would be a whole other debate, whether blacks are justified at getting so pissed at being called racist names. It’d be a very lonely debate for you, I think, if you were saying they aren’t justified. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753/40 "2006-10-09T18:39:43Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] What about the Jews? Persecuted for far longer, and just about as recent as Blacks. Take the Mel Gibson deal- a minor outcry at best, and mainly from the movie industry. If Mel had asked the cop “are you a nigger” instead of “are you a Jew”, how would that have gone over? How many marches would there have been in Malibu? [/QUOTE] “Minor”? It was front page news for over a week. How many marches were launched when John Rocker was mouthing off a few years ago (without even the excuse that he was drunk)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-n-word-in-discussions-about-the-word-racist/375753.md?page=3)