# Using the word "female" as a noun **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 11, 2011, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601 "2011-07-11T07:33:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601/21 "2011-07-11T14:10:05Z")
I hate it. I’ve also noticed that people who use “female” in that manner are often really sexist. Not always, but there’s a high correlation. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601/22 "2011-07-11T14:16:38Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Wow, I had no idea that chicks hated that. Yeah, some broads are like that. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601/23 "2011-07-11T14:19:48Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Yeah, some broads are like that. _sigh_ Dames. What are ya gonna do? ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601/24 "2011-07-11T14:27:43Z")
I could go the opposite way on this. I hear on the news a lot that feminists prefer to say “women teachers” or “women firefighters” as opposed to “female teachers or firefighters”. It’s always seemed grammatically awkward to me. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601/25 "2011-07-11T14:30:52Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > I could go the opposite way on this. I hear on the news a lot that feminists prefer to say “women teachers” or “women firefighters” as opposed to “female teachers or firefighters”. It’s always seemed grammatically awkward to me. Well, “female” is being used adjectivally in “female teachers,” so it’s not a problem, in my view. OK – How many female teachers are there in this school? Not OK – How many teachers in this school are females? ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601/26 "2011-07-11T14:31:13Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > I could go the opposite way on this. I hear on the news a lot that feminists prefer to say “women teachers” or “women firefighters” as opposed to “female teachers or firefighters”. It’s always seemed grammatically awkward to me. Well it’s an adjective in your example, not a noun. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601/27 "2011-07-11T14:50:49Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Well it’s an adjective in your example, not a noun. Is it grammatically correct to ask, “How many men nurses do you have in your unit?” If so, doesn’t, “How many male nurses do you have in your unit?” sound less awkward? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601/28 "2011-07-11T15:09:46Z")
All collective terms for female humans / women are loaded with gender politics. If we invented a new neutral term tomorrow it’d become politically loaded soon enough. Gender politics seems to be an innate human need. I’m not saying that’s a \*good \*thing, just that is \*is \*a thing. We definately use the word “women” in sentences where substituting “men” sounds really weird. All of which is a leftover from the even more gender-bound thinking of 50 or 100 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601/29 "2011-07-11T15:13:29Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > Is it grammatically correct to ask, “How many men nurses do you have in your unit?” > > If so, doesn’t, “How many male nurses do you have in your unit?” sound less awkward? That’s what he said. When used as an adjective it sounds fine. It’s only when used as a noun that it sounds awkward and/or disrespectful. The only times I hear that are from military/police or litigants on People’s Court. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601/30 "2011-07-11T15:14:56Z")
_Hello there, female My, my, but you do look swell Could you please walk A little slower_ - Girl Watcher (The O’Kaysions) Nothing sexist about that. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601/31 "2011-07-11T15:16:01Z")
My freshman comp students use both “males” and “females” as nouns _all the damn time_. It bugs me, but it’s one of those little, nagging annoyances that I don’t bother to correct most of the time, since there are usually more serious things wrong with the paper and you’ve got to pick your battles. I kind of understand where it comes from, since they’re usually writing about fellow students or other peers, and I think they recognize that calling themselves “girls” and “guys” is inappropriate for academic writing, but they’re not yet used to thinking of themselves as “men” and “women.” (Actually, I believe I’ve just hit on the reason why it bothers me so much: I think eighteen is jolly well old enough to start thinking of yourself as an adult, and acting as an adult, and it drives me batty when college students act like they’re still in high school.) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601/32 "2011-07-11T15:19:11Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > Is it grammatically correct to ask, “How many men nurses do you have in your unit?” > > If so, doesn’t, “How many male nurses do you have in your unit?” sound less awkward? First of all, it’s not a question of grammar, but of semantics. Second, I don’t think you are grasping what people are saying in this thread – Adjectival use of “female” is fine; it’s nominal use of “female” that bothers people. ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601/33 "2011-07-11T15:20:12Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > All collective terms for female humans / women are loaded with gender politics. If we invented a new neutral term tomorrow it’d become politically loaded soon enough. > > Gender politics seems to be an innate human need. > > I’m not saying that’s a \*good \*thing, just that is \*is \*a thing. > > We definately use the word “women” in sentences where substituting “men” sounds really weird. All of which is a leftover from the even more gender-bound thinking of 50 or 100 years ago. It’s not just that, though – there’s something distancing about calling women “females,” like they’re an alien species or something, not human like the speaker. What is going on with them that inspires them to use that word? Like that thread title around here a few weeks ago, something like “Currently dating a female – should I show her the real me?” Why did that person not use the word “woman”? Edit: It’s [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=612744&highlight=female). And then it turns out the OP has serious Madonna/whore issues, what a surprise. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601/34 "2011-07-11T15:39:41Z")
I can see it occasionally, when you need an umbrella term that encompasses both “girls” and “women”. Or if, say, a bachelor is commiserating to his dog after a bad date: “Females. Bah!” But in a context (which is almost all of the time) where all of the folks being referred to are adult humans? “Women” or “ladies” works just fine. What really bugs me is when folks either A, refer to adult women as “girls” or “gals”, or B, feel the need to specify gender when it’s not relevant. My dad has a habit of doing both: “A gal doctor handled my last appointment at the hospital.” “Wait, Dad, your doctor was only a child?” “OK, a _woman_ doctor…” “And why were you seeing a gynecologist, anyway, Dad?” In my dad’s world, there are doctors and there are gal doctors, lawyers and gal lawyers, judges and gal judges, and in all cases, the latter are not to be taken as seriously. It’s not completely one-sided, though: There are also nurses and male nurses (though never boy nurses). ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601/35 "2011-07-11T15:47:39Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Almost without exception whenever it’s used here on the SDMB I know it’s going to be the kind of OP that makes me feel like I need a shower. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601/36 "2011-07-11T15:51:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Or if, say, a bachelor is commiserating to his dog after a bad date: “Females. Bah!” Well, in such a case, objectifying and demeaning are intended, perhaps? > [@](#): > > “Women” or “ladies” works just fine. I consider “ladies” to be old-fashioned and condescending except when used by a master of ceremonies in the phrase “ladies and gentlemen.” Addressing people in person as “ladies” is tacky. > [@](#): > > What really bugs me is when folks either A, refer to adult women as “girls” When I’m talking to my male friends, any woman who is roughly our age or younger is a “girl.” It’s the counterpart to “guy.” > [@](#): > > or “gals” I’d find it very weird for any man younger than 75 to use “gals” unironically. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601/37 "2011-07-11T16:05:14Z")
I agree with the prevailing view here on the nominal use of “female,” though I have noticed a lot of people here using “black,” etc., the same way. > [@Acsenray](#): > > I consider “ladies” to be old-fashioned and condescending except when used by a master of ceremonies in the phrase “ladies and gentlemen.” Addressing people in person as “ladies” is tacky. Do you find it old-fashioned, condescending or tacky to address men as “gentlemen”? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601/38 "2011-07-11T16:06:54Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Do you find it old-fashioned, condescending or tacky to address men as “gentlemen”? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601/39 "2011-07-11T16:27:16Z")
I’m so glad to see that I’m not the only one who has issues with this. I rarely hear “male” used the same way, so there’s definitely something to it. I also realize that male/female is used like this in military and law enforcement and I have no issue with that. It seems like guys who use female this way don’t want to give full respect by just referring to us as women. I’ve never found “women” to be a loaded term. I think most of us are happy with it. The girls/ladies thing doesn’t bother me, but I do find it strange when grown women are referred to as girls. Still, it’s infinitely better than female. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601/40 "2011-07-11T16:37:10Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > We definately use the word “women” in sentences where substituting “men” sounds really weird. All of which is a leftover from the even more gender-bound thinking of 50 or 100 years ago. Can you give some examples of what you’re saying here? I can’t think of any usage of women that wouldn’t also be appropriate for men. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-the-word-female-as-a-noun/588601.md?page=3)