# Using 'Thou' for God. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [March 9, 2004, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-thou-for-god/233290 "2004-03-09T12:58:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-thou-for-god/233290/1 "2004-03-09T12:58:48Z")
I know I have already discussed [this](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/m971211c.html) staff report. But I have just one more question concerning it. As we’ve discussed, the plural form of the personal pronoun “you” came to be used as a term of respect, first for social superiors, then to everyone in general, thus making _thou_, _thee_, etc. virtually obsolete. (For those of you who forgot the original Middle English forms of you, here they are again: _Middle English Personal Pronouns: NOMINATIVE: thou NOM. PLURAL: ye ACCUSATIVE: thee ACC. PLURAL: you GENITIVE: thy(n) GEN. PLURAL: your DATIVE: thee DAT. PLURAL: you_ BTW, I got these from an old dictionary. So if there is anything inaccurate about what I have copied (in my [other](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=241942) post here, someone claimed the word “genitive” was inaccurate)–blame it on the (old) dictionary.) Now, here is my question. Why is _thou_, etc. still used for God? In fact, how did it ever come to be used for God at all? If _you_ is the term of respect, it seems odd at the very least why it should be used for God. In **McCaffertA** ’s staff [report](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/m971211c.html), the matter is brought up, but not really resolved: > [@](#): > > “Thou” became the familiar form, used in addressing intimates, children, social inferiors, **and the deity** , while “you” was the formal term, used in all other contexts. [Emphasis mine.] 😕 ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-thou-for-god/233290/2 "2004-03-09T14:13:17Z")
A combination of factors: (a) It’s a matter of intimacy. Thou/tu/du is commonly known as “second person _familiar_” and who is more familiar with you than God? And in true intimacy, respect, honor and love are present regardless of word form. Late Modern English, of course, has done away with “thou” and adopted “you” as the all-purpose 2nd. person singular. However when you contrast it to a language with familiar/formal versions, you have for instance how in Spanish, addressing God as “usted” would sound presumptuous, as if, you’re not on first-name terms! (b) Language evolution. In the old, old form of many European languages, there is only one 2nd-person singular root, _and it usually is the one that later evolved into the “familiar”_. Even _kings_ would be addressed as “thou” if ever _addressed directly_(that is very important). Again with the Spanish comparison, to this day the verb-conjugation tables in a Spanish grammar will give tú/vosotros (thou/y’all;) ) as the single standard 2nd-person verb forms. However, during the evolution of the languages thru the Middle Ages and Renaissance, it became customary that in “formal” situations, say at the Court, a “courteous” form of address would be adopted. The courtly persons would use the “Royal We” and would not be addressed _directly_ in 2nd-person-singular as a person just like you, but would be addressed in the _plural_ form: thus “You”; or German “Sie”, using the plural verb forms. In the case of kings, of course, they’d address each other as countries (“Greetings to our cousin, France”) Spanish took this a step further: instead of “tú”, the couteous person would address others as “vuestra merced” – “your grace”, using the _plural_ form of the 2d-p-fam-possessive – and the **3rd** -person verb form would be used. That phrase with time evolved into “usted”, the modern Spanish 2nd-person-formal. The major Reformation-Era translations of the Bible into English (the KJV) and Spanish (the Reina/Valera) share the pattern of using what was then considered “classic” forms, using “Thou” even when referring to royalty and the Deity (even though by then they would not dream of actually addressing real live royalty in the familiar in everyday speech.) This, quite probably, because the Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek and Latin texts do not use a second-person-formal either. Add to that centuries of Christians, Jews and Muslims praying and handing down scripture in the _classical_ languages, and you get it being well established that God is on “Thou” terms with humanity. Being above petty considerations of rank-inflation, he’ll let the kings and prelates argue over nonsense like who should addres the other as “Your Most Excellent Righteous”. ---
**Author:** ![epepke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9de0a6/32.png) [@epepke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epepke)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-thou-for-god/233290/3 "2004-03-11T17:35:57Z")
Let’s not forget that one of the big issues behind the Reformation was that one could have a personal relationship with God without the need for a priest to intercede. Using the familiar forms helped push that along. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-thou-for-god/233290/4 "2004-03-11T21:17:03Z")
Remember that until recent years, we didn’t have new Bible translations popping up all the time. For a long time after “thou” vanished from most English dialects, people used the King James Version (or another archaic version) as a traditional Bible text. So for many English speakers, the one place they were likely to regularly encounter “thou” was in church, & it came to seem “high” (though once it had been low). So God, being higher than high, was “Thou” as a sort of form of respect. Besides, many people as children would develop the idea that God speaks archaic “Biblical” English as his accustomed tongue. It’s funny, really. It’s all out of ignorance. But don’t feel bad, we are all born ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-thou-for-god/233290/5 "2004-03-11T23:48:19Z")
**foolsguinea** has a point, as far as English-speakers are concerned. Betweeen the KJV and Shakespeare (never forget Shakespeare!) many English-speakers have grown up conditioned to perceive Elizabethan English as somehow a specially “noble” or “honourable” style of speech. Even the KJV Committee and William S. were both writing their material in what they thought would be language understandable to the mainstream of the population c. 1610. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/using-thou-for-god/233290/6 "2004-03-11T23:50:12Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Even the KJV Committee and William S. were both writing their material in what they thought would be language understandable to the mainstream of the population c. 1610. Even **THOUGH** they were writing for general audiences… that is :o