# Usink der German name in ze sentence.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usink-der-german-name-in-ze-sentence/571554
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [February 16, 2011, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usink-der-german-name-in-ze-sentence/571554 "2011-02-16T06:16:19Z")
**Posts on this page:** 11
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Kilmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilmore)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2011, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usink-der-german-name-in-ze-sentence/571554/1 "2011-02-16T06:16:19Z")
I have a problem something like this. Just an example…
“Whose pickelhaube is this?”
“Rudolf von Flugel’s.”
“Whose?”
“von Flugel’s.”
Now, is the “v” capitalized? Or do I even start with “von” or do I just start with “Flugel’s”.
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### Author:  [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2011, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usink-der-german-name-in-ze-sentence/571554/2 "2011-02-16T06:50:48Z")
It’s capitalized in German, likewise in English.
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### Author:  [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2011, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usink-der-german-name-in-ze-sentence/571554/3 "2011-02-16T08:53:43Z")
The ‘von’ as a nobiliary particle in a German name is not capitalized in German, except (as with all words) at the beginning of a sentence. So, capitalize it if and only if you would capitalize any other word in that position. The nobiliary particle is an integral part of the last name - Rudolf von Flugel’s last name is _von Flugel_, not just _Flugel_.
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### Author:  [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/footballisplayedwithyourfeet)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2011, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usink-der-german-name-in-ze-sentence/571554/4 "2011-02-16T09:22:36Z")
I’m not sure about German, but in dutch the ‘van’, ‘de’ or ‘der’ (or any combination of these) is capitalized if there is no first name mentioned. So it is:
Ruud van Nistelrooij and mister Van Nistelrooij
similarly it is
Rafael van der Vaart and mr. Van der Vaart
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### Author:  [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2011, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usink-der-german-name-in-ze-sentence/571554/5 "2011-02-16T10:30:04Z")
Is that Flugel or did you not write Flügel? Why is he called wing?
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### Author:  [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2011, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usink-der-german-name-in-ze-sentence/571554/6 "2011-02-16T12:50:54Z")
> [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](#):
>
> I’m not sure about German, but in dutch the ‘van’, ‘de’ or ‘der’ (or any combination of these) is capitalized if there is no first name mentioned. So it is:
>
> Ruud van Nistelrooij and mister Van Nistelrooij
>
> similarly it is
>
> Rafael van der Vaart and mr. Van der Vaart
The exception to this rule, of course, is Hertz Van Rental.
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### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usink-der-german-name-in-ze-sentence/571554/7 "2011-02-16T18:21:15Z")
> [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](#):
>
> I’m not sure about German, but in dutch the ‘van’, ‘de’ or ‘der’ (or any combination of these) is capitalized if there is no first name mentioned. So it is:
>
> Ruud van Nistelrooij and mister Van Nistelrooij
>
> similarly it is
>
> Rafael van der Vaart and mr. Van der Vaart
Yip, the rule is [different](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalization#Compound_names) depending on the nationality.
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### Author:  [@Kilmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilmore)
#### Post date: [February 17, 2011, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usink-der-german-name-in-ze-sentence/571554/8 "2011-02-17T02:07:06Z")
> [@constanze](#):
>
> Is that Flugel or did you not write Flügel? Why is he called wing?
I borrowed the name from Richard Scarry. He’s the fox flying the triplane.
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### Author:  [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)
#### Post date: [February 17, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usink-der-german-name-in-ze-sentence/571554/9 "2011-02-17T02:36:34Z")
> [@Colophon](#):
>
> The exception to this rule, of course, is Hertz Van Rental.
Not to mention Camper Van Beethoven.
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### Author:  [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)
#### Post date: [February 17, 2011, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usink-der-german-name-in-ze-sentence/571554/10 "2011-02-17T08:45:41Z")
> [@Kilmore](#):
>
> He’s the fox flying the triplane.
I’m sorry, but that cultural reference goes over my head.
If the character is a fox, then the traditional name would be [Reineke Fuchs](http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reineke_Fuchs) in German. Although that is so old, it evokes fairy-tales.
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### Author:  [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)
#### Post date: [February 17, 2011, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usink-der-german-name-in-ze-sentence/571554/11 "2011-02-17T08:57:16Z")
[Richard Scarry](http://images.google.com/images?as_q=&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=richard+scarry&as_oq=&as_eq=&imgtype=&imgsz=&imgw=&imgh=&imgar=&as_filetype=&imgc=&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images&as_st=y&biw=1024&bih=587) is a children’s books author and artist. In this case it is just a pilot that happens to be depicted as a fox, not the generic fox that is flying an aeroplane.