# USS John McCain Collision **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 21, 2017, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-john-mccain-collision/794246 "2017-08-21T03:07:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-john-mccain-collision/794246/1 "2017-08-21T03:07:38Z")
> **[Ten sailors are missing after a U.S. destroyer collided with a tanker](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/navy-destroyer-uss-john-s-mccain-collides-merchant-ship-east-n794386)** > > The collision between the USS John S. McCain and a merchant vessel was being treated as an accident, authorities told NBC News. Another collision with a commercial vessel in a short period of time. After the first one I speculated that there was some hacking or tampering with navigation systems. Seems more likely now. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-john-mccain-collision/794246/2 "2017-08-21T03:09:11Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > After the first one I speculated that there was some hacking or tampering with navigation systems. Seems more likely now. No it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-john-mccain-collision/794246/3 "2017-08-21T05:09:33Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Another collision with a commercial vessel in a short period of time. After the first one I speculated that there was some hacking or tampering with navigation systems. Seems more likely now. > [@](#): > > An active-duty Navy officer expressed concern to Fox News over the training of young Navy officers aboard ships. > > “It’s not the same level of training you used to get,” the officer said. > **[10 missing, 5 injured after USS John S. McCain collides with tanker in Pacific](https://www.foxnews.com/world/10-missing-5-injured-after-uss-john-s-mccain-collides-with-tanker-in-pacific)** > > The guided-missile destroyer USS John S. McCain was involved in a collision with a merchant vessel east of Singapore and the Strait of Malacca, the Navy said in a tweet. > [@](#): > > Military experts said the latest incident, which comes after seven US sailors aboard the USS Fitzgerald died in a collision off the coast of Japan in June, calls into question the Navy’s training and will likely lead to a serious shake-up among the Navy’s leadership. > **[Navy continues search for sailors, wants answers | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/20/asia/us-navy-destroyer-collision-singapore/index.html)** > > As search teams continued Tuesday to look for 10 American sailors missing after a Navy warship collided with a commercial tanker east of Singapore – the latest in a series of similar incidents in the Pacific – the US defense brass wants answers. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-john-mccain-collision/794246/4 "2017-08-21T05:17:03Z")
I’m going to take this opportunity to express my disdain for the practice of naming edifices, structures, vessels, and foundations after living persons. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-john-mccain-collision/794246/5 "2017-08-21T05:20:16Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’m going to take this opportunity to express my disdain for the practice of naming edifices, structures, vessels, and foundations after living persons. The ship named after the Senator’s father and grandfather. [USS John S. McCain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_John_S._McCain_(DDG-56)) > [@](#): > > **This warship is named after John S. McCain, Sr., and John S. McCain, Jr., both Admirals in the United States Navy.** John S. McCain, Sr., commanded the aircraft carrier USS Ranger, and acted as commander of the Fast Carrier Task Force during the latter stages of World War II. John S. McCain, Jr., commanded the U.S. Navy submarines USS Gunnel and USS Dentuda during World War II. Subsequently, he held a number of posts, rising to Commander-in-Chief of the United States Pacific Command before retiring in 1972. **These men were the grandfather and father of Senator John S. McCain III.** ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-john-mccain-collision/794246/6 "2017-08-21T05:21:37Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’m going to take this opportunity to express my disdain for the practice of naming edifices, structures, vessels, and foundations after living persons. This warship is named after Senator McCain’s _father and grandfather,_ both dead. Edit: Ninja’d. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-john-mccain-collision/794246/7 "2017-08-21T05:27:34Z")
Thank you. My disdain for the practice remains, and I am happy to concede that it does not apply to the ship in question. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-john-mccain-collision/794246/8 "2017-08-21T06:12:05Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Thank you. My disdain for the practice remains, and I am happy to concede that it does not apply to the ship in question. Yeah, the fact that we have a [USS Gaby Giffords](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Gabrielle_Giffords) is terrible. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-john-mccain-collision/794246/9 "2017-08-21T07:08:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yeah, the fact that we have a [USS Gaby Giffords](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Gabrielle_Giffords) is terrible. I prefer the term “unseemly,” but her status as an admirable figure does not change my position. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-john-mccain-collision/794246/10 "2017-08-21T10:39:45Z")
Also - and this has bothered me for a while - don’t give the ship the full name, middle initials included. Just the surname is enough. If it worked for Chester W. Nimitz, it’ll work for John S. McCain. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-john-mccain-collision/794246/11 "2017-08-21T11:46:03Z")
Don’t all naval vessels have radar and someone watching them? And in this day and age, wouldn’t that also include software that would process the data and warn when it’s on a collision course? How about merchant vessels- do they have radar as well? Two tragic accidents in a short time- it all seems so avoidable. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-john-mccain-collision/794246/12 "2017-08-21T11:49:12Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Another collision with a commercial vessel in a short period of time. After the first one I speculated that there was some hacking or tampering with navigation systems. Seems more likely now. You can go all conspiracy theory on us if you like, but the first one has been admitted to have been a crew stuff up. If it involevd hacking or tampering with systems, it seems likely the navy would have said “the collision was caused by a steering failure” or similiar, even if they didn’t want to admit to hacking or tampering. Further, the very fact you are referring to “navigation systems” in this context suggests to me you don’t know what you are talking about. Navigation systems have nothing to do with close quarters collision avoidance. Even if every electronic system on the ship was deader than a doornail (or giving wrong information), unless you are assuming that the hacking extended to making everyone on the bridge temporarily blind or comatose, the collisions should not have happened since there are supposed to be several Mark I eyeball systems in full operation. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-john-mccain-collision/794246/13 "2017-08-21T12:21:36Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Don’t all naval vessels have radar and someone watching them? And in this day and age, wouldn’t that also include software that would process the data and warn when it’s on a collision course? How about merchant vessels- do they have radar as well? Two tragic accidents in a short time- it all seems so avoidable. > [@Princhester](#): > > Navigation systems have nothing to do with close quarters collision avoidance. Even if every electronic system on the ship was deader than a doornail (or giving wrong information), unless you are assuming that the hacking extended to making everyone on the bridge temporarily blind or comatose, the collisions should not have happened since there are supposed to be several Mark I eyeball systems in full operation. May be examples of overreliance on the technology and past performance leading to complacency. After all how often DO these ships have collisions in those busy waters? I agree questions will be raised about the state of basic mariner’s skills. That they are both units of DS15 is going to get some sweat-inducing attention put on Squadron/Fleet leadership. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-john-mccain-collision/794246/14 "2017-08-21T12:40:38Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > May be examples of overreliance on the technology and past performance leading to complacency. After all how often DO these ships have collisions in those busy waters? What technology specifically? Collision avoidance is primarily a matter of human judgment and control. Ship collisions aren’t too uncommon. The collision occurred near the Singapore Straits which are some of the most challenging (in terms of the potential for collision) in the world. There are few masters that go through there without at least a small amount of sweat on the upper lip. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-john-mccain-collision/794246/15 "2017-08-21T13:23:06Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Don’t all naval vessels have radar and someone watching them? And in this day and age, wouldn’t that also include software that would process the data and warn when it’s on a collision course? How about merchant vessels- do they have radar as well? Two tragic accidents in a short time- it all seems so avoidable. Maybe the guy watching radar didn’t have any coffee. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-john-mccain-collision/794246/16 "2017-08-21T13:45:43Z")
There is a very high probability that both ships knew about the other well before they hit and knew of the risk of a collision and were trying to avoid precisely that when they… didn’t. Radar isn’t the point. One of the reasons maritime “rules of the road” came into being was a concern about the disturbing number of collisions between vessels well aware of one another, that basically manoeuvred into one another while trying to do the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-john-mccain-collision/794246/17 "2017-08-21T14:01:45Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > This warship is named after Senator McCain’s _father and grandfather,_ both dead. Granddad was a hero at the Philippine Sea. Balls of brass run in that family. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-john-mccain-collision/794246/18 "2017-08-21T15:25:06Z")
This is the fourth serious ship collision in the 7th fleet this year! I wouldn’t be surprised to see a shake up in the 7th fleet’s command. The McCain’s command would be aware of the Fitzgerald’s crash two months ago. It seems like they’d have their best crewmen on duty in crowded waters > **[Five sailors injured, 10 missing after U.S. Navy destroyer collides with a...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/another-us-navy-destroyer-collides-with-a-merchant-ship-rescue-efforts-underway/2017/08/20/c42f15b2-8602-11e7-9ce7-9e175d8953fa_story.html)** > > Rescue efforts off the coast of Singapore are underway to find the crew missing from the USS John S. McCain. > [@](#): > > The collision marks the fourth time this year a Navy vessel with the 7th Fleet has been involved in a major mishap, an embarrassing string that has prompted the service to remove several senior officers from command. > > The others include the deadly collision involving the USS Fitzgerald on June 17, a May 9 incident in which the guided-missile cruiser USS Lake Champlain collided with a South Korean fishing vessel east of the Korean Peninsula and a Jan. 31 mishap in which the guided-missile cruiser USS Antietam ran aground in Tokyo Bay, near its home port of Yokosuka. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-john-mccain-collision/794246/19 "2017-08-21T15:47:34Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > This warship is named after Senator McCain’s _father and grandfather,_ both dead. Other than USS The Sullivans, are there any other people who have to share a ship name? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-john-mccain-collision/794246/20 "2017-08-21T17:41:22Z")
After the Fitzgerald collision, I read that the protocol was that the captain should have been brought to the bridge anytime a ship gets too close (under 4000 feet?), although that obviously wasn’t done in that case. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-john-mccain-collision/794246.md?page=2)