# USS Nimitz vs the Japanese fleet **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 22, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-nimitz-vs-the-japanese-fleet/540333 "2010-05-22T03:10:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-nimitz-vs-the-japanese-fleet/540333/1 "2010-05-22T03:10:11Z")
I just finished watching the movie The Final Countdown, in which the USS Nimitz is thrown back in time to Pearl Harbor just before the attack by the Japanese fleet? How much of a difference would that carrier make in the battle? In WW2? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-nimitz-vs-the-japanese-fleet/540333/2 "2010-05-22T03:19:57Z")
A difference at Pearl Harbor, sure (though probably not enough to prevent substantial damage). As soon as the Nimitz’s jets ran out of fuel it would have become ineffective, and had to run for cover and stay idle until the 1940s military figured out how to refine fuel it and the jets could use. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-nimitz-vs-the-japanese-fleet/540333/3 "2010-05-22T03:23:06Z")
How effective would the missiles on the Tomcats be against WWII-era planes? Presumably dogfighting isn’t entirely out of the question. How many missiles are on board the Nimitz? How long can the Nimitz supply her aircraft with fuel (assuming like in the film she travels alone)? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-nimitz-vs-the-japanese-fleet/540333/4 "2010-05-22T03:26:58Z")
To be honest, I think Nimitz would have been best deployed as a massively advanced recon platform, rather than as a fighting ship. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-nimitz-vs-the-japanese-fleet/540333/5 "2010-05-22T03:33:19Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > As soon as the Nimitz’s jets ran out of fuel it would have become ineffective, and had to run for cover and stay idle until the 1940s military figured out how to refine fuel it and the jets could use. Jet fuel is basically kerosene. JP-5, used by the Navy, has a higher flash point than kerosene (\>60ºC vs around 35ºC to 65ºC) so as to be safer aboard ship. JP-5 came about less than a decade after the end of WWII. I suspect that in an emergency situation _Nimitz_ could obtain a kerosene-based fuel that would work in the jets within limitations. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-nimitz-vs-the-japanese-fleet/540333/6 "2010-05-22T03:38:13Z")
Previous thread: ["The Final Countdown": Tomcats vs. Zeros - Cafe Society - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=421352) ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-nimitz-vs-the-japanese-fleet/540333/7 "2010-05-22T03:38:32Z")
could the Tomcats fly slow enough to engage the zeros effectively? Maybe completely taking out the all the strike force ships and having all the planes run out of fuel mid ocean would be the most effective. I bet having every plane and ship disappear would have given the Japanese pause, too. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-nimitz-vs-the-japanese-fleet/540333/8 "2010-05-22T03:45:19Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > I just finished watching the movie The Final Countdown, in which the USS Nimitz is thrown back in time to Pearl Harbor just before the attack by the Japanese fleet? How much of a difference would that carrier make in the battle? In WW2? The ordinance supplies would include enough anti ship missles and bombs to splatter the japaneese carrier group. Dogfighting would be silly, the jets easily move 3-4 times faster than the japaneese planes and would just blow by leaving them unable to effectively intercept or engage them in any meaningful way. Most IJN fleet would be sinking and burning in minutes riddled with missle and bomb hits. Fleet AA would be equally impotent against fast moving jets. IF the IJN airstrike were able to locate the nimitz, present day naval fire control radar would probably mow down most of them before they could release bombs or torpedos. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-nimitz-vs-the-japanese-fleet/540333/9 "2010-05-22T03:47:06Z")
The Nimitz has an aviation fuel storage capacity of 3.3 million gallons, makes it’s own water, and can carry food for 70 days, generally speaking. An F/A-18 carries 1700 gallons internally and 660 gallons in two external drop tanks. Round 2360 down to 2000 gallons, and that is about 1,650 individual sorties, and long ones at that. That plane has an over 600 miles radius tanked up in attack mode (A model). Given advanced knowledge of the Japanese strategy, they could win the Pacific basically single handedly with a few stops to pick up food. Nothing in the air could touch the aircraft, the air search radar from the ship alone reaches out over 200 miles, let alone the range of the E-2 Hawkeye watching 150,000 square miles of ocean for anything that reflects radiation. 13,000 pounds of things that go boom on each attacking plane, pilots with night vision capability, the Japanese Navy would go down faster than a dress on prom night. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-nimitz-vs-the-japanese-fleet/540333/10 "2010-05-22T03:50:24Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Previous thread: ["The Final Countdown": Tomcats vs. Zeros - Cafe Society - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=421352) Oh, right. Nukes and anti-ship missiles change things a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-nimitz-vs-the-japanese-fleet/540333/11 "2010-05-22T03:55:08Z")
> [@UncleBill](#): > > The Nimitz has an aviation fuel storage capacity of 3.3 million gallons, makes it’s own water, and can carry food for 70 days, generally speaking. An F/A-18 carries 1700 gallons internally and 660 gallons in two external drop tanks. Round 2360 down to 2000 gallons, and that is about 1,650 individual sorties, and long ones at that. That plane has an over 600 miles radius tanked up in attack mode (A model). Given advanced knowledge of the Japanese strategy, they could win the Pacific basically single handedly with a few stops to pick up food. Nothing in the air could touch the aircraft, the air search radar from the ship alone reaches out over 200 miles, let alone the range of the E-2 Hawkeye watching 150,000 square miles of ocean for anything that reflects radiation. 13,000 pounds of things that go boom on each attacking plane, pilots with night vision capability, the Japanese Navy would go down faster than a dress on prom night. Was it much diffrent in 1980, when the film in the OP came out? Planes are different, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-nimitz-vs-the-japanese-fleet/540333/12 "2010-05-22T03:55:25Z")
The Sidewinders of that era could easily lock onto the heat exhaust from the prop engines (it was the Nam Sidewinders which needed to lock onto a hot jet tailpipe). Sparrows likewise-their radar should have been sufficient (Phoenixes too for that matter). The slow speed of the Japanese planes shouldn’t make it significantly harder to get kills. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-nimitz-vs-the-japanese-fleet/540333/13 "2010-05-22T04:03:19Z")
Just started watching the film, not seen it in years. Ain’t technology wonderful. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-nimitz-vs-the-japanese-fleet/540333/14 "2010-05-22T04:28:01Z")
If you liked _The Final Countdown_, you might also enjoy John Birmingham’s _Axis of Time_ trilogy about a 21st century carrier battle group that accidentally gets sent back in time to WWII. In addition to the fun weapon mismatches, he spends a lot of time exploring the resulting culture shock. The people from the future find 1940’s America appallingly sexist and racist. And the people from the 1940’s find the visitors from the future appallingly ruthless. There’s a great scene where three 21st century marines, one of them black, walk into the wrong bar in Hawaii. When a brawl erupts, they use their martial arts training to systematically cripple a dozen WWII leathernecks. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-nimitz-vs-the-japanese-fleet/540333/15 "2010-05-22T05:29:12Z")
OTOH, I would recommend giving The Philidelphia Experiment a pass. I watched that recently and thought it was lame. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-nimitz-vs-the-japanese-fleet/540333/16 "2010-05-22T05:48:46Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > If you liked _The Final Countdown_, you might also enjoy John Birmingham’s _Axis of Time_ trilogy about a 21st century carrier battle group that accidentally gets sent back in time to WWII. In addition to the fun weapon mismatches, he spends a lot of time exploring the resulting culture shock. The people from the future find 1940’s America appallingly sexist and racist. And the people from the 1940’s find the visitors from the future appallingly ruthless. There’s a great scene where three 21st century marines, one of them black, walk into the wrong bar in Hawaii. When a brawl erupts, they use their martial arts training to systematically cripple a dozen WWII leathernecks. Very good series. Even civilian level tech is light years ahead of the present day, and there’s shock both ways, as the uptimers are not used to the slowness of communications, and downtimers are still amazed by how interlaced the future is. After early dominance, the future platforms generally get relegated to C&C roles and battlespace management. Go read 'em! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-nimitz-vs-the-japanese-fleet/540333/17 "2010-05-22T06:00:24Z")
As others have mentioned the Nimitz shouldn’t waste its ammo shooting down Zeros. Sink the Japanese carriers and the planes are doomed anyway. Japan only had ten carriers in 1941 and six of them were used in the attack. So sinking them would have almost knocked Japan out of the war entirely. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-nimitz-vs-the-japanese-fleet/540333/18 "2010-05-22T07:18:47Z")
you take away those carriers and you’ve effectively made every single one of the japanese fighters kamikazes. to paraphrase sun tzu, always leave your enemy an out because a cornered enemy is the most dangerous one you can engage. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-nimitz-vs-the-japanese-fleet/540333/19 "2010-05-22T12:12:19Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > you take away those carriers and you’ve effectively made every single one of the japanese fighters kamikazes. Only if they knew the carriers were destroyed. I picture them completing the attack on Pearl Harbor, coming back to rendezvous with the carriers, and then getting very worried looks on their faces. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-nimitz-vs-the-japanese-fleet/540333/20 "2010-05-22T12:17:19Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Just started watching the film, not seen it in years. Ain’t technology wonderful. Damn creepy film, though (at least to me). I’m not sure why, maybe the horrible screaming noise of the storm. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uss-nimitz-vs-the-japanese-fleet/540333.md?page=2)