# Utah Boy Scout rock toppling outrage **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 19, 2013, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644 "2013-10-19T12:20:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/261 "2013-10-25T04:27:43Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > It’s just a rock sitting on a pile of earth. All the great books in the world are only a pile of letters. The twin towers were just a pile of concrete and a bunch of steel. The pyramids are only slabs of stones aligned together. The rain forest is just a bunch of trees in a forest. > > You take the awe out of awesome. Yes, it’s full of goodly awesomeness. When you plop it back where it was it still looks awesome. Just as the 10,000 other rocks and (if you’re familiar with the area) all the other phenomenal views. I don’t remember if I drove through Goblin Valley but I did see Bryce and Zion Canyon and the pictures from Goblin Valley are similar. It is spectacular scenery. So while I’m not downplaying the stupidity of his actions I am downplaying the significance of his actions in comparison to the massive amount of damage done by the park service in the name of public service. And yes, I like what the park service did and continues to do. It’s all about perspective. Fine the git and make him pay for damages. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/262 "2013-10-25T04:29:04Z")
Guys. It’s a rock on some dirt. Nobody should have to go to jail over some gravel on the ground. I mean, who really cares about a pebble sitting on a bit of dust somewhere? I trip over ten just like it every time I walk down my driveway. Pfft. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/263 "2013-10-25T04:43:00Z")
> [@1096EX](#): > > Just don’t see why there is much discussion on the issue. > > 1 - There are laws that say “Don’t destroy stuff in the park.” > 2 - If you do destroy stuff in the park there are proscribed punishments. > 3 - The people in question destroyed stuff in the park against the law. > > Therefore > > 4 - Apply punishment. > > Arguments about the relative worthiness of the objects and whatnot are immateriel. If you own something then you have the right (with few exceptions) to destroy it at your leisure. If you don’t own it then you don’t have that right. The range of punishment proscribed though is fairly broad - an “up to” that $5000 and 6 months. Just fining $500 would also be within guidelines. The arguments applying the lower end rest on the claimed lack of worthiness of the objects and the claimed misguided but good-hearted intent of the perps. The arguments for the higher end include the worthiness of the objects, an understanding that it is destroyed and not easily reparable, and a scoffing at the claimed well meant intents. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/264 "2013-10-25T04:55:35Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > The range of punishment proscribed though is fairly broad - an “up to” that $5000 and 6 months. Just fining $500 would also be within guidelines. The arguments applying the lower end rest on the claimed lack of worthiness of the objects and the claimed misguided but good-hearted intent of the perps. The arguments for the higher end include the worthiness of the objects, an understanding that it is destroyed and not easily reparable, and a scoffing at the claimed well meant intents. I would personally like to see the stone restored to it’s original perch and include the labor of Boy Scouts as part of the project. It would help redeem their image independent of the guys they threw out of the organization. I don’t see the value of jail because that cost’s tax payers. I’d rather see a fine. Something reasonably painful in relation to the guy’s financial status. $500 may be too much or too little. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/265 "2013-10-25T05:32:49Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I would personally like to see the stone restored to it’s original perch and include the labor of Boy Scouts as part of the project. It would help redeem their image independent of the guys they threw out of the organization. I don’t see the value of jail because that cost’s tax payers. I’d rather see a fine. Something reasonably painful in relation to the guy’s financial status. $500 may be too much or too little. I recommend we sacrifice one boy scout to atone for this deed. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/266 "2013-10-25T05:55:55Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I recommend we sacrifice one boy scout to atone for this deed. I’m assuming then that you want him stoned. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/267 "2013-10-25T06:39:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m assuming then that you want him stoned. No, but I want the punishment to be proportionate to the crime. He destroyed a natural treasure that was tens of millions of years old. This was something that was older than the human race. And he destroyed it one afternoon for a chuckle. This should not be treated like he dented somebody’s fender. I want him to be punished enough so he spends the rest of his life regretting what he did. Because a million years from now, somebody is going to be walking through that canyon and they’re going to see what he did. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/268 "2013-10-25T07:13:48Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m assuming then that you want him stoned. With one toppled goblin ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/269 "2013-10-25T07:17:22Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I want him to be punished enough so he spends the rest of his life regretting what he did. I’m guessing that having the video used to torpedo his personal injury lawsuit will be grist enough for that. ---
**Author:** ![MrPeabody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@MrPeabody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrPeabody)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/270 "2013-10-25T17:27:55Z")
revised ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/271 "2013-10-25T17:30:34Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > With one toppled goblin “Goblin-toppler” has entered my lexicon of “almost dirty” phrases. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/272 "2013-10-25T18:08:37Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Guys. It’s a rock on some dirt. Nobody should have to go to jail over some gravel on the ground. I mean, who really cares about a pebble sitting on a bit of dust somewhere? I trip over ten just like it every time I walk down my driveway. Pfft. Is your driveway a National Park? If so then you should be called out as not to bright as well. If not you should be called out for making such comments. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/273 "2013-10-25T18:16:45Z")
Psssst… **Si Amigo** , **MsWhatsit** had 10 prior comments to that last one. In keeping with the _nature_ of this thread, it was pure sarchasm. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/274 "2013-10-25T18:52:32Z")
Ah yes, the Sar Chasm! Formed, I understand, by the Whoosh River. I run knee deep there. (Work with me and say it out loud. Okay, sorry.) ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/275 "2013-10-25T18:58:23Z")
Two parts of this foolishness really stick in my craw and should be considered as aggravating circumstances (not necessarily in the legal sense): 1. The monumental arrogance and self delusion that led the fratboy redneck doofuses to think they would get off scot-free with such a stunningly lame excuse for their behavoir. It is offensive to suggest that a judge would fall for that self-serving, transparent fig leaf. 2. Leaving aside any consideration of what a lousy job they did modeling the purported boy scout values of honesty and good stewardship; the shitheads in question set a terrible safety example for the young men they are supposed to be leading. Anyone who has spent any time outdoors knows that you Don’t Fucking Roll Fucking Rocks. Especially not just for shits and giggles. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/276 "2013-10-25T19:03:47Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > Psssst… **Si Amigo** , **MsWhatsit** had 10 prior comments to that last one. In keeping with the _nature_ of this thread, it was pure sarchasm. Two can play this sarcasm game can’t they? I’ve gotten tired of beating on **Magiver** directly. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/277 "2013-10-25T19:28:19Z")
Help! I’ve fallen in the Whoosh River and can’t get out! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/278 "2013-10-25T19:53:33Z")
I’m going to build a windfarm in this thread and power my house for the next five years. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/279 "2013-10-26T04:06:43Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > “Goblin-toppler” has entered my lexicon of “almost dirty” phrases. Sounds to me like a good pejorative term for someone who does something stupid and/or inconsiderate in public, “That guy parked his hummer across 3 disable parking spots, what a goblin-toppler,” or “Those goblin-topplers at Westboro are at it again.” ETA; That YouTube video no longer works as the filmer [has had it taken down due to a copyright claim](http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131023/17414724991/infamous-viral-goblin-toppler-video-taken-down-copyright-claim.shtml), the BBC vid should still work though. > [@](#): > > And now, to top it all off, it would appear that Hall, who took the video, also does not have a particularly good grasp of the law. He’s using copyright claims to take down as many copies of the video as he can, apparently not understanding how fair use – especially for news reporting works. While he did film it, and likely does have the copyright, taking down the video and arguing it’s a copyright violation is pretty damn questionable. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/280 "2013-10-28T17:38:39Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > I don’t understand why people are seriously suggesting jail. Big fine, definitely. But jail? These guys are morons but they aren’t dangerous or violent and despite this dumb action they are **probably overall more of an asset to society than a detriment**. A jail term would likely result in them losing their jobs and it’s their families who will suffer from that. They deserve public shaming (check) and a big fine but not to have their lives ruined Agree with all but the part I bolded. Full grown adults who think that God told them to push over a giant rock are not so unquestionably an asset. Throw in someone who had just claimed debilitating back surgery–yet put this on film? And no excuse about being drunk or otherwise impaired in judgement? I’m just not sure he’s not going to do something even stupider in the future. Which reminds me, I also think they should get community service, lest they get help paying their fine from their church or members. We need to make sure they are the ones who feel it. But jail time (other than a token to make a point) is bad for the reason you mention. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644.md?page=15)