# Utah Boy Scout rock toppling outrage **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 19, 2013, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644 "2013-10-19T12:20:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/61 "2013-10-19T22:09:22Z")
It’s juvie time. Throw the fucking book at those delinquents. (I got my bachelor’s degree in Geology.) ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/62 "2013-10-19T22:13:57Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > It’s juvie time. Throw the fucking book at those delinquents. > > (I got my bachelor’s degree in Geology.) then maybe throwing rocks instead of books might be more to your liking. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/63 "2013-10-19T22:23:17Z")
I think they screwed up, but they had good intentions. They shouldn’t be charged with anything criminal, but they should try to work with the park to educate others. It would be more effective and far-reaching than making them go to jail for a few weeks. I also think it’s a freakin rock, and people are making way too big a deal about it because it’s the Boy Scouts. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/64 "2013-10-19T22:23:18Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > (I got my bachelor’s degree in Geology.) Would it actually be possible to somehow repair the damage? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/65 "2013-10-19T22:27:53Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > then maybe throwing rocks instead of books might be more to your liking. Well, speaking of books, I got my master’s degree in Library Science. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/66 "2013-10-19T22:31:12Z")
Again, these aren’t Boy Scouts. These are the adult leaders. They would look a bit out of place in juvie. ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/67 "2013-10-19T22:31:52Z")
Since they probably won’t be left back in that park, they will have to find [another place to camp.](http://www.kuriositas.com/2012/10/goldenrock.html) > [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > I think they screwed up, but they had good intentions. They shouldn’t be charged with anything criminal, but they should try to work with the park to educate others. It would be more effective and far-reaching than making them go to jail for a few weeks. > > I also think it’s a freakin rock, and people are making way too big a deal about it because it’s the Boy Scouts. Being Boy Scouts they really [should know better.](http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/boyscouts/teachingleavenotrace.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/68 "2013-10-19T22:37:37Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > I think they screwed up, but they had good intentions. They shouldn’t be charged with anything criminal, but they should try to work with the park to educate others. It would be more effective and far-reaching than making them go to jail for a few weeks. > > I also think it’s a freakin rock, and people are making way too big a deal about it because it’s the Boy Scouts. Nope, I saw the video before I read any stories about it, and all I saw was a big fat idiot. No uniforms in sight. His being a scoutmaster is a total non-issue for me, although it might be if I were gay. Which I’m not. I’m watching a football game right now. So just shut up. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. And I think the most effective and far-reaching way to prevent future incidents like this is to give them the maximum penalty allowed by law. Let them do some hard time in the pen, surrounded by dirty, sweaty, muscular guys. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/69 "2013-10-19T22:37:58Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > I think they screwed up, but they had good intentions. They only had “good intentions” if you believe their patently ridiculous post-facto story that they toppled the boulder out of concern for people’s safety. I don’t buy that bullshit excuse for a nanosecond. > [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > I also think it’s a freakin rock, and people are making way too big a deal about it because it’s the Boy Scouts. For the record, i don’t give a flying fuck that they are involved with the Scouts. My responses in this thread would have been exactly the same even if they had no Scout affiliation whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/70 "2013-10-19T22:38:15Z")
OK, look, people, these fine examples deserve their punishment for trying such a boneheaded stunt. I’m pretty dang sure there’s something in the Utah Code that adds up to “Don’t do this!” – may be variously under destruction of public property, alteration of a protected natural site, failure to notify authorities of a perceived hazard, earthmoving on public lands without a permit, failure to follow the procurement procedure for hazard mitigation in a public facility[li], etc.). So they’re on the hook for _that_.[/li]HOWEVER let’s be serious about scale of punishments. Utah surely ALSO has in its laws and regulations a fixed range of penalties (amount of fines, confinement time, community service hours, counseling classes, etc.) for whatever offense or infraction they may be cited for. I would ask for the maximum for each person involved but IMO those are may not be likely to exceed $5,000 in fines or a year’s lockup (or comparable community service) for such sort of event. Which I would accept as fair enough. [\*;)] ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/71 "2013-10-19T22:53:20Z")
$5,000 in fines seems reasonable to me. $500 is not nearly enough. I wouldn’t be opposed to jail time either, but nothing longer than a couple of weeks. If I were queen of the world, that’s what I would decree, anyway. As far as their claims that they were just trying to protect innocent children from a dangerous rock: Yeah, no. If you watch the video, it’s patently obvious that they were just bro-ing it up, complete with woo-hooing and yee-haws when the rock finally goes over. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/72 "2013-10-19T22:59:42Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > I think they screwed up, but they had good intentions. They shouldn’t be charged with anything criminal, but they should try to work with the park to educate others. It would be more effective and far-reaching than making them go to jail for a few weeks. > > I also think it’s a freakin rock, and people are making way too big a deal about it because it’s the Boy Scouts. I disagree on both points here. I don’t believe they had good intentions either. I think it’s more likely that they made up that story after they saw the negative publicity they were getting. Their status with the Boy Scouts has nothing to do with my opinion. This was a work of nature, and they took it upon themselves to destroy it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/73 "2013-10-19T23:00:02Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I think [this](http://www.kutv.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_7578.shtml) is the story about Glenn Taylor you’re referring to, from KUTV. Ha, karma’s a bitch ain’t it. Based on that I strongly suspect that if the goblin had toppled the other way a suit would be filed against the state park. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/74 "2013-10-19T23:30:34Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > …I strongly suspect that if the goblin had toppled the other way a suit would be filed against the state park. Win some, lose some. That’s what insurance is for. ---
**Author:** ![seal\_cleaner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@seal\_cleaner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_cleaner)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/75 "2013-10-20T00:34:45Z")
Even if they _are_ telling the truth - which I seriously doubt- I cannot applaud the desire to render protected wild areas “safer.” Also, has anyone besides the Boulder Feeb confirmed death threats? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/76 "2013-10-20T00:44:41Z")
"Well, I saw that California Condor, and I thought to myself, ‘What if that bird tries to eat a baby?’ So I shot it." ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/77 "2013-10-20T00:48:05Z")
I’ve been to Goblin Valley several times. Wonderful spot. I have never, _never_, **never** felt the urge to “fix” a rock that looked like it might topple. (And I was kicked out of the Boy Scouts for “being disrespectful”!) Those guys should be punished to the fullest extent possible and the Boy Scouts should hold them up as examples of gigantic morons…maybe make a video about them and show it at all the pack meetings. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/78 "2013-10-20T01:17:24Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > Would it actually be possible to somehow repair the damage? Geologist here who’s spent a lot of time recreating in the Four Corners. Yeah, actually I think it may be possible to restore the hoodoo to an acceptable state. You’d have to relevel the strata the cap boulder was on, removing whatever damage the slide off it caused. You’d also need to rig some kind of lift, a tripod or the like, that could elevate and reposition the boulder to its original orientation. This optimally needs to be done before any moisture is allowed to compromise the integrity of that softer strata below. Granted, it wouldn’t be exactly like it was before but it would beat the hell out of its current, sad place. I’ll come back later when not posting from a cell but yes, I’m cautiously optimistic. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/79 "2013-10-20T01:36:27Z")
I think that if they were black, they’d already be in jail. They are douchebags and deserve to be punished. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/80 "2013-10-20T01:53:28Z")
Sentence them to spend eternity setting that rock back up the way it was, only to have it topple over again every time they have it almost in place. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644.md?page=5)