# Utah Boy Scout rock toppling outrage **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 19, 2013, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644 "2013-10-19T12:20:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/81 "2013-10-20T01:59:29Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Sentence them to spend eternity setting that rock back up the way it was, only to have it topple over again every time they have it almost in place. Oh, wait, I see **GuanoLad** thought of that first, [several posts up-thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16771418#post16771418). Credit to him, then. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/82 "2013-10-20T02:08:54Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > They only had “good intentions” if you believe their patently ridiculous post-facto story that they toppled the boulder out of concern for people’s safety. I don’t buy that bullshit excuse for a nanosecond. Amen. I saw two cow-tipping idiots in that video, not two concerned citizens ( who would still have been idiots if their story was true, just a slightly less noxious breed ). > [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > I also think it’s a freakin rock, and people are making way too big a deal about it It’s not the end of the world, but it still is a particularly shitty variety of vandalism and hyperbolic death threats aside they fully deserve all the internet scorn being heaped on them. Time in jail? Probably not. Community service? Sure. Hefty fine? Absolutely. Did you know removing most occupied native bird nests in the U.S. can potentially cost you up to a $15,000 dollar fine and six months in prison? No reason rare geologic formations shouldn’t receive similar protections. After all that property they just vandalized belongs to all of us. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/83 "2013-10-20T02:28:59Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > I also think it’s a freakin rock… Thats what it’s been reduced to now. Before it was a much more unusual hoodoo in a State Park dedicated to its protection so it could be enjoyed by all of us. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/84 "2013-10-20T02:58:59Z")
I had to go wait on the bench there. Group W is where they put you if you may not be moral enough to join the army after your special crime. There were all kinds of mean nasty dudes there on the bench. There were mother rapers. Father stabbers. Father rapers. Father Rapers! Right there on the bench with me. And the meanest, nastiest one of all, the meanest, nastiest father raper came up to me and said “What’d you get?” I said “I didn’t get nothing, I had to pay $50 and pick up the rock” ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/85 "2013-10-20T03:06:57Z")
They should have explained they were just trying to protect the wildlife. Some innocent coyote trying to catch a roadrunner for dinner could have been flattened by that rock. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/86 "2013-10-20T03:18:32Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Time in jail? Probably not. Community service? Sure. Hefty fine? Absolutely. > > Did you know removing most occupied native bird nests in the U.S. can potentially cost you up to a $15,000 dollar fine and six months in prison? No reason rare geologic formations shouldn’t receive similar protections. Wildlife laws are so ridiculously cockamamie. You can poach a bear in Sequoia National Park and get away with a $500 fine. But cut down (or even just trim) an oak tree in California and your ass is grass. They’re saying now that the Goblin Topplers may be looking at felony charges, but I’ll believe it when I see it. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/87 "2013-10-20T03:20:44Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > Thats what it’s been reduced to now. Before it was a much more unusual hoodoo in a State Park dedicated to its protection so it could be enjoyed by all of us. Hoodoo? You do. Do what? Look, I’m only human. You can’t expect me to resist forever. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/88 "2013-10-20T03:46:06Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > Wildlife laws are so ridiculously cockamamie. You can poach a bear in Sequoia National Park and get away with a $500 fine. But **cut down (or even just trim) an oak tree in California and your ass is grass.** Cite? (I tried looking myself.) ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/89 "2013-10-20T03:47:12Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > I’ll come back later when not posting from a cell… Whoa. Did you knock over a hoodoo or something? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/90 "2013-10-20T03:51:11Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > Wildlife laws are so ridiculously cockamamie. You can poach a bear in Sequoia National Park and get away with a $500 fine. But cut down (or even just trim) an oak tree in California and your ass is grass. They’re saying now that the Goblin Topplers may be looking at felony charges, but I’ll believe it when I see it. > [@ZenBeam](#): > > Cite? (I tried looking myself.) Looks like it’s the L.A. area. > **[Man faces fines for oak pruning](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2012-jan-15-la-me-pruning-fine-20120115-story.html)** > > La Canada Flintridge resident hired a tree service that wasn't approved by the city. [http://www.treepeople.org/are-there-special-laws-protect-oak-trees](http://www.treepeople.org/are-there-special-laws-protect-oak-trees) ETA:[http://www.californiaoaks.org/](http://www.californiaoaks.org/) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/91 "2013-10-20T04:00:23Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > I think they screwed up, but they had good intentions. They shouldn’t be charged with anything criminal, but they should try to work with the park to educate others. It would be more effective and far-reaching than making them go to jail for a few weeks. > > I also think it’s a freakin rock, and people are making way too big a deal about it because it’s the Boy Scouts. As others have pointed out, your take on this issue is absurd beyond belief. Good intentions? Just a rock? Boy Scouts? You can’t possibly be serious. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/92 "2013-10-20T04:04:18Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > > [@Washoe](#): > > > > Wildlife laws are so ridiculously cockamamie. You can poach a bear in Sequoia National Park and get away with a $500 fine. But cut down (or even just trim) an oak tree in California and your ass is grass. They’re saying now that the Goblin Topplers may be looking at felony charges, but I’ll believe it when I see it. > > > [@ZenBeam](#): > > > > Cite? (I tried looking myself.) > > Looks like it’s the L.A. area. > [Man faces fines for oak pruning](http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jan/15/local/la-me-pruning-fine-20120115) > [http://www.treepeople.org/are-there-special-laws-protect-oak-trees](http://www.treepeople.org/are-there-special-laws-protect-oak-trees) > > ETA:[http://www.californiaoaks.org/](http://www.californiaoaks.org/) So it’s true, if a $2,000 equals “your ass is grass.” ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/93 "2013-10-20T04:55:11Z")
[How about $347,000?](http://consumerist.com/2007/11/28/homeowners-fined-347000-for-trimming-trees-without-a-permit/) Also reduced on appeal, but people can and have been hauled into court over trimming oaks on their own property. Feed a bear in Sequoia NP and it’s a $50 fine. Poach said bear and you will likely get away with a fine less than $1000 if the magistrate is in an amiable mood. I know backcountry Rangers who have been on the job for 20+ years and have never arrested a poacher. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/94 "2013-10-20T05:35:17Z")
Here in Arkansas, not only do they take a dim view of poaching, they arrest a lot of them. They will also confiscate your toys if you are going too fast or go past a sign, etc. They are 99.99% good guys but they are on their own a lot with no backup or way to get backup so they tend to be right peckish if any asshattery comes into view. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/95 "2013-10-20T05:44:19Z")
So, we can’t put them in pillories in the public square because . . .? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/96 "2013-10-20T06:58:15Z")
If they’d had a few smart and sensible gay and atheist Scout leaders along on the trip, this might never have happened! ---
**Author:** ![palacheck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a88e57/32.png) [@palacheck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/palacheck)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/97 "2013-10-20T07:56:50Z")
Give them a fine and make them pick up trash within the park system for 100 hours. I say we put some ropes and clear dotted lines in these “wild” areas and prevent any more of this interaction nonsense. Someone could kick a rock that hadn’t been disturbed for a 100,000 years. Remember folks, nature should never be more than a few miles away. It should be full of hiking trails and devoid of any obstructions on the paths. Once the young 30 somethings get home from their cubicles they’re going to want to put on their $300 hiking boots and space-age GORE-TEX hiking jackets and get some much needed fresh air. I say we install railings every 300 feet with smartphone charging stations so that Facebook pics can be uploaded ASAP. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/98 "2013-10-20T08:03:48Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > So, we can’t put them in pillories in the public square because . . .? Someone might bone them and then they can’t be in the Scouts anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/99 "2013-10-20T09:10:14Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > As others have pointed out, your take on this issue is absurd beyond belief. > > Good intentions? Just a rock? Boy Scouts? You can’t possibly be serious. Well, it is “just a rock”, in that this vandalism didn’t really hurt the ecosystem. The value of tis formation is pretty much purely in human aesthetics - it’s unusual for a rock to be in this position naturally, and as humans, we think that pretty cool. But it’s not like there’s an endangered species who can on longer reproduce, or find food, or whatever, because this rock’s no longer balanced precariously. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644/100 "2013-10-20T09:22:42Z")
It’s a rock formation that the community thought was interesting enough that they made a park out of the area so people could come and see these formations for themselves. The community didn’t agree that the tubby twat in that video that he could knock one of these formations over. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-boy-scout-rock-toppling-outrage/671644.md?page=6)