# Utah judge strikes down same-sex marriage ban! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 21, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863 "2013-12-21T00:33:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/1 "2013-12-21T00:33:30Z")
Holy crap! [Gay marriage is now legal in Utah!](http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/20/21986955-judge-strikes-down-utahs-same-sex-marriage-ban?lite) The state is planning to appeal of course, but the ruling strikes down a voter approved law from 2004 banning it in the state. The state AG will be trying to get a stay on marriage licenses but there’s already a rush of people trying to get married before that happens. Utah has long been an odd outlier of conservative politics. They’re very strongly conservative and well outside the Republican regional stronghold of the South, without the same shared history of post-Civil war reconstruction. Their most dominant religion is outside of the mainstream Christian faiths and sometimes mocked but often their politics overlap. With the fall of DOMA and the ruling on Prop 8, I don’t see any realistic way that this law won’t be ruled unconstitutional no matter how high they appeal it. At most, there will be a stay in license after a few thousand go out and a delay of a few years as the lawsuit winds through the courts. I’m glad. Utah Mormons were instrumental in funding the slew of dishonest and hateful ads in California in 2008 to trick voters into voting for Prop 8. Now they have to tolerate “the gheys!” marrying in their temples. I’m happy the courts are forcing the issue and happy that we have checks and balances on hateful and bigoted discrimination masking as proper laws being legally eliminated in the fastest way possible without waiting for bigots to die off and the “free market” extremists to assert that its not time yet. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/2 "2013-12-21T00:54:11Z")
I await the inevitable deluge of wisecracks about polygamous gay marriage. (In another oddball fit of Utah policy from an earlier age, it was the state that put the repeal of Prohibition over the top. Easier to understand in the sense of wishing to have that power at the state level.) ---
**Author:** ![Silvorange](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Silvorange](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silvorange)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/3 "2013-12-21T01:35:06Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > . Now they have to tolerate “the gheys!” marrying in their temples. No, they don’t. The state does not legislate religious marriage. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/4 "2013-12-21T01:39:29Z")
Wow, Utah! I didn’t see that one coming in my lifetime. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/5 "2013-12-21T01:45:55Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Wow, Utah! I didn’t see that one coming in my lifetime. Why not? It’s not like the people of Utah had anything to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/6 "2013-12-21T01:54:36Z")
This is potentially much bigger than New Mexico’s similar ruling yesterday. It’s a federal judge ruling that marriage is a right, and same sex marriage bans violate the U.S. Constitution. Either it has to be overturned on appeal, or same sex marriage becomes legal in the whole country, right? ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/7 "2013-12-21T02:34:15Z")
> [@Greg\_Charles](#): > > This is potentially much bigger than New Mexico’s similar ruling yesterday. It’s a federal judge ruling that marriage is a right, and same sex marriage bans violate the U.S. Constitution. Either it has to be overturned on appeal, or same sex marriage becomes legal in the whole country, right? Well, I would have thought that overturning of Proposition 8 would have applied to the whole country but they drew back from saying that. I fully expected they would overturn DOMA but allow Prop. 8 to stand on the basis of states’ rights. They surprised me. When Mississippi follows suit, the revolution will be complete. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/8 "2013-12-21T02:52:17Z")
Judge Walker wrote his decision to specifically apply to California’s case, i.e., you can’t grant a right to a minority and then remove it unless you can prove it has a substantial detriment to the public good. The governor and attorney general of California refused to defend Prop. 8, allowing the Supremes to avoid the issue entirely by saying that its supporters didn’t have standing to defend it. In this case, I don’t see how they can weasel out of a definite ruling on whether or not banning SSM is constitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/9 "2013-12-21T03:31:16Z")
> [@Greg\_Charles](#): > > Judge Walker wrote his decision to specifically apply to California’s case, i.e., you can’t grant a right to a minority and then remove it unless you can prove it has a substantial detriment to the public good. The governor and attorney general of California refused to defend Prop. 8, allowing the Supremes to avoid the issue entirely by saying that its supporters didn’t have standing to defend it. In this case, I don’t see how they can weasel out of a definite ruling on whether or not banning SSM is constitutional. Well, the Tenth Circuit could affirm the district court, and then the Supreme Court could refuse to hear the state’s appeal (or alternatively, the state could decline to make an appeal), which would have the effect of making SSM legal throughout the Tenth Circuit but not nationwide. That’s just one possibility, there are others. (Although this would be pretty weird since the Tenth Circuit consists of some pretty conservative states.) ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/10 "2013-12-21T04:21:07Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Now they have to tolerate “the gheys!” marrying in their temples. Betcha anything you want they don’t. The Constitution’s pretty clear on that “freedom of religion” thing. The Mormons just have to stop interfering in everybody else’s right to get married. They can put whatever limits they want on their own members, so long as those members are accepting them voluntarily. None of the states are (nor could) force clergy to perform marriages against their religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/11 "2013-12-21T13:40:40Z")
From [the Tribune](http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57292473-78/county-lake-salt-utah.html.csp) > [@](#): > > As marriages began taking place in Salt Lake County, three couples showed up farther south in Utah County, also hoping to tie the knot. But Utah County Clerk/Auditor Bryan Thompson said he turned them away. > > “I hadn’t seen the ruling nor had my county attorney,” Thompson explained. “Until we understand officially what the ramifications are we’re not going to change our policy.” Utah county is significantly more conservative than Salt Lake County. It will be interesting to see how other counties act. This will really piss off the Mormon church. I also hope that my sister will rush down and marry her long-term partner. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/12 "2013-12-21T14:11:34Z")
I had Utah at 46th in my gay marriage pool squares. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/13 "2013-12-21T14:32:37Z")
I had it last. Right down there with Idaho and my own South Carolina. This thing is really picking up steam. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/14 "2013-12-21T15:56:18Z")
How closely is this tied to the polygamy thing? ---
**Author:** ![Silvorange](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Silvorange](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silvorange)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/15 "2013-12-21T16:08:17Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I had it last. Right down there with Idaho and my own South Carolina. > > This thing is really picking up steam. I just hope Kentucky isn’t last. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/16 "2013-12-21T16:09:58Z")
> [@Silvorange](#): > > No, they don’t. The state does not legislate religious marriage. A fact often pointed out by marriage equality advocates. Phil “gays are murderous” Robertson won’t have to start performing same-sex marriages in his church, and the Mormons and Southern Baptists and Catholics can go on teaching that homosexuality is a sin, when marriage equality is the law of the land. It just means that _states_ have to treat same-sex marriages exactly the same way they treat opposite-sex marriages. No more, no less. Precisely why I cannot see _any_ reasonable argument against it, myself. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/17 "2013-12-21T16:45:40Z")
> [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > How closely is this tied to the polygamy thing? I don’t think it is. Its a tenth circuit federal judge. The interesting thing is that SSM opponents have a choice - if Utah appeals, and it goes to the Supreme Court - and it will take a few years to get there - and the Supremes uphold the ruling under some sort of “well, its time” sort of thing (which was the vibe I got from the Prop 8 decision - it isn’t time yet), then that’s the ballgame. They’ve lost. If they don’t appeal, then SSM is valid in UTAH! The judge has forced them into going all in - and with a hand that looks weaker every time a new card is laid face up. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/18 "2013-12-21T16:53:17Z")
I did my Happy Dance over this one! ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/19 "2013-12-21T21:39:38Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > If they don’t appeal, then SSM is valid in UTAH! At least, until they add an amendment to their state constitution, which will likely happen as quickly as possible, as allowed under their current one. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/20 "2013-12-21T22:23:03Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > At least, until they add an amendment to their state constitution, which will likely happen as quickly as possible, as allowed under their current one. Which will be challenged on the same grounds, and overturned again. The tide’s turned on this, I think. It seems unlikely that DOMA can be reconciled with Full Faith and Credit clause (as was speculated when it passed originally), and the fact that the Supreme Court keeps trying to dodge ruling on that, I think, reflects what they’ll have to decide if they’re ever forced to. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863.md?page=2)