# Utah judge strikes down same-sex marriage ban! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 21, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863 "2013-12-21T00:33:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/21 "2013-12-21T22:29:29Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > At least, until they add an amendment to their state constitution, which will likely happen as quickly as possible, as allowed under their current one. They already have an amendment to their state constitution. That’s what the case is about. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/22 "2013-12-22T01:07:03Z")
I am struck by the many images, over the years, of happy couples celebrating judicial and legislative progress in this matter. If someone didn’t know the reason behind the celebration, wouldn’t they conclude that this is a good thing because so many are happy? I wonder where the sour faces are of those who are adversely affected. Could the lack of those be due to the lack of seriously adverse effects? “My neighbor’s gay and I’m bummed out.” Not exactly newsworthy, eh? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/23 "2013-12-22T01:11:15Z")
To be honest, I had no idea a case was even in the courts, that’s what’s so shocking about this. I’m in CA so I followed the Prop 8 trial and appeal but I didn’t even know someone challenged in Utah. When did this case start, was it after the DOMA and Prop 8 decision last year? I’m surprised it didn’t get more attention ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/24 "2013-12-22T01:47:53Z")
What I read is that after the Supreme Court decision this summer, _dozens_ of lawsuits have been filed in state and federal courts around the country challenging same-sex marriage bans. I’ll be interested to see when the number of states permitting SSM exceeds 25, or when more than half the population lives in a state that permits it. Neither milestone has any legal standing, of course, but it will be another sign of the change coming. ---
**Author:** ![Sarabellum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarabellum/32/3492_2.png) [@Sarabellum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarabellum)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/25 "2013-12-22T03:20:04Z")
Go, Utah! 🙂 Show the rest of us how progressive you really are! It’s not the end of the world, really. It’ll be okay, Utah. Take some deep breaths, count to ten, have a nice soothing bowl of… Jell-o or something. Maybe some other borderline-SSM states will start falling into line now. Because good grief, who wants to go down in history for having taken longer than UTAH to get with the program. Awkward! It’s kind of cool to witness the line of dominoes falling, as SSM gains momentum. I wonder if there’s a bookie somewhere taking bets on which state will be dead last? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/26 "2013-12-22T03:37:05Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > They already have an amendment to their state constitution. That’s what the case is about. Huh. That’s not what the article linked to in the OP said - but you’re definitely right. All the other articles I’m seeing online say it was a constitutional amendment that was struck. Way to go, Utah! (Or rather, US 10th.) ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/27 "2013-12-23T21:29:40Z")
I remember just a few years ago I was playing trivia at a local bar with some friends. The trivia announcer guy asks: “There are currently six states that allow gay marriage. Name those six states.” As we’re all putting our heads together trying to figure out which states to put down, I jokingly said: “Utah!” to which, everybody in the group laughed. Imagine that! Bonus: Just a few short years ago, only six states in the union allowed gay marriage! ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/28 "2013-12-23T22:04:10Z")
In a move that possibly has surprised no one, [Shelby has denied the State’s request for a stay on his decision.](http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/23/22021385-federal-judge-allows-same-sex-marriage-in-utah-to-continue) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/29 "2013-12-23T22:10:39Z")
And it could be a couple of weeks until the 10th Circuit responds to a stay request, now that the procedural way is cleared for one by Judge Shelby’s refusal. So it’s quite likely that just about every gay couple in Utah who wants to get married is going to do so, which will make overturning the decision problematic, at best. There’s a significant difference between preventing theoretical marriages and rescinding actual ones. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/30 "2013-12-23T22:28:04Z")
I don’t think any marriages would be rescinded, even if the ruling is overturned. Here in California, all couples who were married during the brief period when gay marriage was legalized the first time (before Proposition 8) remained married after Prop. 8 passed. The change in the law only affected ‘new’ marriages. not ‘existing’ ones. There’s no reason to think things would be any different in Utah. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/31 "2013-12-24T00:08:49Z")
What are the chances the 10th District Court institutes a stay over Judge Shelby’s ruling? They did that in California with Prop 8 right? Then again, the judge in California was a state judge and this guy Shelby is part of the District Court. It would be like the 10th District overturning itself, wouldn’t it? I think this sets a great precedent like jayjay said. Rescinding actual marriages is much different than preventing theoretical ones. I hope the dominos all fall in other states in similar ways. No longer can people make the argument to deny people marriage to protect some hypothetical value when real people, real married couples, are being harmed by being forced to unmarry ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/32 "2013-12-24T00:22:34Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > What are the chances the 10th District Court institutes a stay over Judge Shelby’s ruling? They did that in California with Prop 8 right? Then again, the judge in California was a state judge and this guy Shelby is part of the District Court. It would be like the 10th District overturning itself, wouldn’t it? > > I think this sets a great precedent like jayjay said. Rescinding actual marriages is much different than preventing theoretical ones. I hope the dominos all fall in other states in similar ways. No longer can people make the argument to deny people marriage to protect some hypothetical value when real people, real married couples, are being harmed by being forced to unmarry Judge Walker who overturned Prop 8 stayed his own ruling. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/33 "2013-12-24T00:28:06Z")
Im hearing that that license offices in some counties are locking their doors? Still looking for a Cite… ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/34 "2013-12-24T02:44:37Z")
There are a number of counties which are still not accepting > [@](#): > > In Utah County, the clerk’s office was not issuing same-sex marriage licenses even after Shelby ruled, and they turned away at least three couples. Utah County Clerk Bryan E. Thompson told The Salt Lake Tribune he would wait to see how the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver ruled on Shelby’s decision before deciding how to proceed. From the same article: > [@](#): > > In Cache County, the clerk’s office was closed “until further notice,” according to a statement issued by the county on Monday. The statement said the office was closed “to sort out the legal issues and confusion created in the wake of Judge Shelby’s opinion.” The statement noted that Gov. Gary Herbert had affirmed that the state would seek a stay of Shelby’s order. > > And in Box Elder County, where no gay couples had attempted to get a license and two sheriff’s officers stood near the doors, officials said they would not issue a license if anyone tried. A staffer said the office did not want to violate state statues. They will take applications, but don’t plan to issue licenses. > > Carbon and Wayne counties also were not issuing same-sex marriage licenses, both saying they were waiting to see how Shelby rules on the stay request. > > There were 22 couples married before 9 a.m. at the Washington County clerk’s office, according to the Spectrum. And in Uintah County, three marriage licenses were issued, according to The Vernal Express. What all of this means: Salt Lake Country, where SLC is located, is the most liberal in the state. Marriages are processing full steam ahead. Utah County is home to Prove and Brigham Young University, and is the bastion of conservative Mormonism. They won’t start issuing licenses until the national guard is mobilized. The only redeeming factor is that it’s only 50 minutes away from Salt Lake County. Cache County is home to Logan and USU, and fairly conservative as are the rest of those not issuing licenses. Washington County is home to St. George. It used to be a sleepy Mormon town, but times, they are a changin’. I just emailed my sister to see if she and her partner have tied the knot. My sister and her common-law wife (he-he) had held a non-legal wedding ceremony (which my mother boycotted), legally adopted her partner’s last name (which my mother refuses to use in her will), and they had made all the legal arrangements, so I can’t see them not taking up this chance. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/35 "2013-12-24T04:54:10Z")
Here’s [a graphic](http://www.kutv.com/news/features/local/stories/vid_5478.shtml?wap=0)of the status of the various counties. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/36 "2013-12-24T09:26:34Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > In a move that possibly has surprised no one, [Shelby has denied the State’s request for a stay on his decision.](http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/23/22021385-federal-judge-allows-same-sex-marriage-in-utah-to-continue) Isn’t that rather unusual? I’m no lawyer, but in my experience as an observer it’s typical for judges at this level to stay their own ruling when there’s a pretty good chance that it’s going to be re-litigated in a higher court (as this case almost certainly will be). Does anyone know if his honor gave a reason as to why he refused the stay? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/37 "2013-12-24T10:50:56Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Salt Lake Country, where SLC is located, is the most liberal in the state. Marriages are processing full steam ahead. You’re not kidding. There are so many people waiting to get married that they’re getting pizzas delivered to them - for free - by the _Boy Scouts_. Let me repeat that: the Boy Scouts, members of that bastion of traditional homophobia, are delivering free pizzas to gay couples waiting to get married. In Utah. I’m just off to Google whether cats and dogs are now living together and the End Times are upon us. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/38 "2013-12-24T11:47:37Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I’m just off to Google whether cats and dogs are now living together In a number of Doper households, as well as several of the factories where I’ve worked. > [@](#): > > and the End Times are upon us. No reports available, does the year’s end count? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/39 "2013-12-24T13:47:42Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I’m just off to Google whether cats and dogs are now living together and the End Times are upon us. It’s such a shame Harold Camping isn’t alive to see this latest harbinger of our impending doom. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863/40 "2013-12-24T14:19:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Isn’t that rather unusual? I’m no lawyer, but in my experience as an observer it’s typical for judges at this level to stay their own ruling when there’s a pretty good chance that it’s going to be re-litigated in a higher court (as this case almost certainly will be). Does anyone know if his honor gave a reason as to why he refused the stay? It is unusual. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban/676863.md?page=3)