# Utah Judge Takes Child From Lesbian Foster Parents **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 12, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-takes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/737381 "2015-11-12T16:28:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-takes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/737381/1 "2015-11-12T16:28:28Z")
[And the _only_ reason is because they are not heterosexual.](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/utah-judge-removes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/). He claims that there is valid research that children are better off in heterosexual homes, so let’s ignore whatever environment those two loving parents may have created for that child. I’m thinking whatever “research” he is relying on was sought after to bolster his own religious opinion. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-takes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/737381/2 "2015-11-12T17:37:04Z")
Utah: The Alabama of the West. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-takes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/737381/3 "2015-11-12T17:44:21Z")
I can’t wait to see which of the Republican candidates comes out in support of this boneheaded move. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-takes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/737381/4 "2015-11-12T17:47:12Z")
Doesn’t this belong in the Pit? I mean, what’s to debate? ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-takes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/737381/5 "2015-11-12T17:51:48Z")
I’m wondering how quickly the appellate court will jump on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-takes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/737381/6 "2015-11-12T17:52:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Doesn’t this belong in the Pit? I mean, what’s to debate? The legitimacy of such research, the reasoning of the judge in light of recent Supreme Court rulings, and the likelihood of it being overturned anytime soon and on what grounds. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-takes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/737381/7 "2015-11-12T17:58:44Z")
I’d be surprised if anyone here or any Republican currently running for president defended this decision. Maybe Rick Santorum, but I doubt it. ETA: The worst I can imagine is that one could defend the judge’s legal authority to make such a decision, but not that it’s a good one. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-takes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/737381/8 "2015-11-12T18:03:18Z")
Reading between the lines, it appears the Utah Division of Child and Family Services opposes the judge’s decision and would like it to be overturned. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-takes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/737381/9 "2015-11-12T18:04:13Z")
How about this for a debate topic: let’s say hypothetically that there is some research out there that indicates that some types of couples are better than others for fostering children. Should we disallow the groups that aren’t at the top from fostering? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-takes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/737381/10 "2015-11-12T18:12:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The legitimacy of such research… Still nothing to debate there. Did he even say what research he was talking about? My own research shows that judge to be an asshole. Will that be allowed in at his impeachment? > [@](#): > > the reasoning of the judge in light of recent Supreme Court rulings… That’s likely how it would get overturned. The article says the foster parenting was allowed because of SCOTUS rulings on same-sex marriage. The judge is arguing that people fit to be married parents aren’t fit to be foster parents based on a condition SCOTUS is not accepting. > [@](#): > > and the likelihood of it being overturned anytime soon and on what grounds. The courts don’t act that quickly. Unless the state takes some kind of action in their legislature or courts the case will have to go through state appeals processes or get picked up by a federal court. So that child will have different parents by the time it gets resolved. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-takes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/737381/11 "2015-11-12T18:13:22Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > How about this for a debate topic: let’s say hypothetically that there is some research out there that indicates that some types of couples are better than others for fostering children. Should we disallow the groups that aren’t at the top from fostering? Maybe, but in this case the child was already with the couple in question so your hypothetical wouldn’t apply. _If_ you could establish a lower level of fitness based on foster parent sexuality _and_ there were other fitness criteria the state used to establish foster parent candidates then sure I could see it being a consideration. Then again given some of the terrible stories that come out of the current foster care filtration methods maybe the whole thing needs a relook. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-takes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/737381/12 "2015-11-12T18:15:07Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > How about this for a debate topic: let’s say hypothetically that there is some research out there that indicates that some types of couples are better than others for fostering children. Should we disallow the groups that aren’t at the top from fostering? Unless research showed some types of couples were actually bad at fostering children why would it even be considered? ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-takes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/737381/13 "2015-11-12T18:17:10Z")
So first off, I think this is deplorable behavior. The Washington Post article I read makes it sound like this is not the first time this judge has thrown his weight around. He sounds like quite a jerk. > [@CurtC](#): > > How about this for a debate topic: let’s say hypothetically that there is some research out there that indicates that some types of couples are better than others for fostering children. Should we disallow the groups that aren’t at the top from fostering? IMO, no. The primary focus should be whether the children are going to be placed in a safe, loving home. Fine-grain assessments like “research shows that x-type parents result in 10% greater high school graduation rates” are overkill and open the door for a lot of abuse, as seen here. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-takes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/737381/14 "2015-11-12T18:22:40Z")
The thing is, perfectly hetero parents have abused foster kids, and badly. A loving home with a gay couple has got to be better than that, right? So where do we decide? Ok, so let’s take as given that straight homes are better for kids than gay homes. I don’t believe it for a second, but let’s accept that premise. That doesn’t mean every straight home is better than every gay home. And I am hesitant to limit foster families if they fulfill all of the other requirements. Enough kids need help out there. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-takes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/737381/15 "2015-11-12T18:24:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [And the _only_ reason is because they are not heterosexual.](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/utah-judge-removes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/). He claims that there is valid research that children are better off in heterosexual homes, so let’s ignore whatever environment those two loving parents may have created for that child. I’m thinking whatever “research” he is relying on was sought after to bolster his own religious opinion. This reasoning is ridiculous. I’m sure that children are better off in rich households than in middle-class households. Should only rich people be allowed to be foster parents? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-takes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/737381/16 "2015-11-12T18:26:41Z")
Getting details about this case is going to be a problem. The judge cannot comment because the case is pending, and the court records cannot be released because it involves a minor. The court will confirm that the decision had nothing to do with the qualifications or demeanor of the foster-parents themselves, but that is all they will confirm. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-takes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/737381/17 "2015-11-12T18:30:14Z")
It would be lovely if someone somewhere would cite the evidence the judge is using. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-takes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/737381/18 "2015-11-12T18:31:33Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > It would be lovely if someone somewhere would cite the evidence the judge is using. As has already been posted, it can’t be done. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-takes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/737381/19 "2015-11-12T18:44:23Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > I’d be surprised if anyone here or any Republican currently running for president defended this decision. Maybe Rick Santorum, but I doubt it. > > ETA: The worst I can imagine is that one could defend the judge’s legal authority to make such a decision, but not that it’s a good one. Presumably Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee and Bobby Jindal believe any children should be removed before the foster parents are [executed](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18849985#post18849985). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-takes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/737381/20 "2015-11-12T18:45:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Getting details about this case is going to be a problem. The judge cannot comment because the case is pending, and the court records cannot be released because it involves a minor. The court will confirm that the decision had nothing to do with the qualifications or demeanor of the foster-parents themselves, but that is all they will confirm. The court order can certainly be released. They’ll just identify the child by initials. See [here](http://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/2014/e060554.html) for an example. I can’t find the written order because Utah’s courts records system requires paid access but it will probably be on Scribd or someplace quickly. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utah-judge-takes-child-from-lesbian-foster-parents/737381.md?page=2)