# Utter ignorance of astronomy **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 21, 2007, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811 "2007-06-21T05:04:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/21 "2007-06-21T08:34:51Z")
I’ve mentioned this one before: Mangetout and Friend are gazing at the clear night sky F: The sun is a star, right? M: That’s right. F: \ Which one? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/22 "2007-06-21T08:55:02Z")
I’d argue that staying comfortably in the mindset that can’t be arsed about basic facts about the universe will make you easy pickings for the less-benign myths and cults. Without the kind of intellectual curiosity **Kimstu** mentions, you get Scientology, Heaven’s Gate, Jonestown. You also get the less immediately harmful, but certainly not benign beliefs (because they empty your wallet)- magnet therapy, homepathy, Amway… This is the kind of thing Sagan was talking about in _Demon-Haunted World_ when he speaks about the mental baloney detection kit we should develop. IMO, there’s no difference between a FlatEarther and a Terracentricist. Both laughable, both have no impact on day-to-day living, but both are just begging for a lot of other “WooWoo” beliefs to come join them in the cosy empty space they’ve discovered. Lib, I’d argue that ignorance of the difference between Kant and Hegel doesn’t fall in the same category of pure fallacious belief. By all means Pit people who get their philosophies wrong. But FYI, for future references - _Hegel_ was the tall one 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/23 "2007-06-21T09:40:56Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] I’d argue that staying comfortably in the mindset that can’t be arsed about basic facts about the universe will make you easy pickings for the less-benign myths and cults. {rant} [/QUOTE] And I’d argue that you’re guilty of a classic _Hasty Generalisation_ fallacy - assuming that a person uninterested in acquiring abstract knowledge about astronomy is therefore uninterested in acquiring any knowledge at all. Indeed, it’s quite as possible that time spent on learning whether the Sun goes around the Earth or vice versa is time better spent on learning about swindles, con tricks, wacky cults and snake-oil salesmen. One may know all about every damn star in the sky and still fall for the first Nigerian scam to turn up in the email. Just as (as the OP illustrates) one may be sniffily condemnatory of another’s ignorance of astronomy, and yet display the same level of ignorance of orthography - arguably an even more useful skill. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/24 "2007-06-21T09:55:22Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] That could really mess up daylight savings time. [/QUOTE] Don’t get me started. That extra hour of daylight is just going to make global warming even worse. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/25 "2007-06-21T10:51:29Z")
> [@](#): > > My surprise reached a climax, however, when I found incidentally that [Holmes] was ignorant of the Copernican Theory and of the composition of the Solar System. That any civilized human being in this nineteenth century should not be aware that the earth travelled round the sun appeared to be to me such an extraordinary fact that I could hardly realize it. > > “You appear to be astonished,” he said, smiling at my expression of surprise. “Now that I do know it I shall do my best to forget it.” > > “To forget it!” > > “You see,” he explained, “I consider that a man’s brain originally is like a little empty attic, and you have to stock it with such furniture as you choose. A fool takes in all the lumber of every sort that he comes across, so that the knowledge which might be useful to him gets crowded out, or at best is jumbled up with a lot of other things so that he has a difficulty in laying his hands upon it. Now the skilful workman is very careful indeed as to what he takes into his brain-attic. He will have nothing but the tools which may help him in doing his work, but of these he has a large assortment, and all in the most perfect order. It is a mistake to think that that little room has elastic walls and can distend to any extent. Depend upon it there comes a time when for every addition of knowledge you forget something that you knew before. It is of the highest importance, therefore, not to have useless facts elbowing out the useful ones.” > > “But the Solar System!” I protested. > > “What the deuce is it to me?” he interrupted impatiently; “you say that we go round the sun. If we went round the moon it would not make a pennyworth of difference to me or to my work.” _A Study in Scarlet_, by Arthur Conan Doyle. It’s quite rude to mock people for not knowing or caring about Astronomy 101, just as I’d consider it rude for someone to mock me for not knowing or caring about basic art/music history. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/26 "2007-06-21T10:55:09Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] And I’d argue that you’re guilty of a classic _Hasty Generalisation_ fallacy - assuming that a person uninterested in acquiring abstract knowledge about astronomy is therefore uninterested in acquiring any knowledge at all. [/QUOTE] I would say that knowing which parts of your solar system goes around which, and that a solar eclipse won’t kill you, hardly count as “abstract”. I can understand not needing to know the equations for calculating Hawking radiation or somesuch, but this is as much a part of “general knowledge” as knowing where China is - not an effect on your day-to-day life, but good to know all the same. I’ve had sufficient experience with people who believe in all of homeopathy, aliens and guardian angels combined to say that the uninformed make easier marks for the unscrupulous and the delusional. It’s not “any knowledge at all” that is missing, it’s critical thinking, part of which is countered by, yes, general knowledge. Knowing how things work goes towards countering pseudoscience scams. Knowing how the solar system actually functions would go a long way towards countering the oldest pseudoscience of them all, for instance - Astrology. Why this absolute bunk still exists at all has often vexed me, but knowing there are people like the OP and others pointed out means it doesn’t puzzle me. ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/27 "2007-06-21T11:00:00Z")
The only thing I know about astronomy is that I’m a Capricorn and sometimes my horoscope in the newspaper says my day is going to suck, and \*it’s always right \*so there must be something to it. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/28 "2007-06-21T11:01:06Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] I would say that knowing which parts of your solar system goes around which, and that a solar eclipse won’t kill you, hardly count as “abstract”. [/QUOTE] I can’t understand how people cannot help but absorb basic facts like that without actively going out of their way to be ignorant. But then again, I was loudly mocking people who thought the dark side of the moon was permanently dark to an educated friend and slowly became aware of the utter silence my rant engendered. What did you imagine causes the moon to have phases I politely asked. (Okay, the odd ‘WTF’ might have crept in). The Earth’s shadow she replied. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/29 "2007-06-21T12:05:32Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] _A Study in Scarlet_, by Arthur Conan Doyle. It’s quite rude to mock people for not knowing or caring about Astronomy 101, just as I’d consider it rude for someone to mock me for not knowing or caring about basic art/music history. [/QUOTE] Knowing that the Moon revolves around the Earth is hardly Astronomy 101. In the UK such knowledge is regarded as “Key Stage 2”. Aka by the time you’re 8-9 years old you should know that the Moon revolves around the Earth. Its basic, hell, its so basic I really didn’t think it needed to be taught. And whilst being “ignorant” of science may to some people be OK, in reality its not. Science (on the whole) isn’t some abstract concept like basic philosophy or art or music, but its a fundamental explanation of how our world _works_. You don’t get much more grounded in reality than that. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/30 "2007-06-21T12:08:36Z")
[QUOTE=Angua] Knowing that the Moon revolves around the Earth is hardly Astronomy 101. In the UK such knowledge is regarded as “Key Stage 2”. Aka by the time you’re 8-9 years old you should know that the Moon revolves around the Earth. Its basic, hell, its so basic I really didn’t think it needed to be taught. And whilst being “ignorant” of science may to some people be OK, in reality its not. Science (on the whole) isn’t some abstract concept like basic philosophy or art or music, but its a fundamental explanation of how our world _works_. You don’t get much more grounded in reality than that. [/QUOTE] You really ought to be declaring your interest at this point though, **Angua**. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/31 "2007-06-21T12:11:45Z")
Today is the solstice, so we’ll be hearing, over and over, that it’s “the official first day of summer”. Why must they turn my office into a den of lies? I think, paradoxically, it’s modern civilization that contributes to basic lack of knowledge about the night sky. Our pre-industrial ancestors mostly lived in small villages, with little artificial light (and no tv) and were acutely aware of the stars, Moon and planets. Living in Atlanta, I hardly even see the stars, and can only see the Milky Way if I’m really out in the country. If I didn’t have a particular interest, it would be easy to forget there’s anything up there. I mentioned to a co-worker yesterday that, on the nights of June 30 and July 1, Saturn and Venus will be very close together in the Western sky after sunset. She asked if they were visible to the naked eye. This is a smart, capable woman who knows about a lot of stuff, but has little acquaintance with what’s in the night sky. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/32 "2007-06-21T12:23:37Z")
[QUOTE=Baldwin] Today is the solstice, so we’ll be hearing, over and over, that it’s “the official first day of summer”. Why must they turn my office into a den of lies? [/QUOTE] Er, but the seasons _are_ defined by the spring equinox, the summer solstice, the autumnal equinox and the winter solstice. By astronomical definition today _is_ the first day of summer. (Or am I being wooshed?) Though I fully agree with you that its modern civilisation that contributes to the lack of knowledge. Every year I teach a course for gifted and talented students, i.e. the ones with interest and motivation for the subject and most of them never see the Milky Way till the first evening of the course when I point it out to them. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/33 "2007-06-21T12:24:20Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] It’s quite rude to mock people for not knowing or caring about Astronomy 101… [/QUOTE] 101? Much of this stuff doesn’t rise to 90c. Such ignorance _deserves_ mockery, not elevation to “college level”. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/34 "2007-06-21T12:25:25Z")
I spotted the crescent Moon and Venus pretty close by on Tuesday evening. Seems they must have got _mighty_ close a few hours earlier. Anyone see it? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/35 "2007-06-21T12:29:49Z")
[QUOTE=Angua] You don’t get much more grounded in reality than that. [/QUOTE] You don’t? It’s simple enough - can you live a happy, productive life not knowing or caring about the relative movements of the moon and Earth? ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/36 "2007-06-21T12:35:18Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] You don’t? It’s simple enough - can you live a happy, productive life not knowing or caring about the relative movements of the moon and Earth? [/QUOTE] Personally, no, I don’t think I could. I guess it could be “productive” provided I was happy to have a life where I didn’t think, learn, wonder about the world around me, the world that I live in, but I don’t think I’d be happy. But that’s just me. YMM and obviously does vary. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/37 "2007-06-21T12:38:32Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] You don’t? It’s simple enough - can you live a happy, productive life not knowing or caring about the relative movements of the moon and Earth? [/QUOTE] Happy probably but productive? No. If you are that bloody ignorant, if you are that adverse to learning even by osmosis the ‘productive’ bar would have to be set at grass-hopper level. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/38 "2007-06-21T12:40:45Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] I’d love to pit people who don’t know Kant from Hegel, but Jesus. [/QUOTE] You don’t even get many fundies who Kant tell Hegel from Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/39 "2007-06-21T12:45:45Z")
[QUOTE=tagos] Happy probably but productive? No. If you are that bloody ignorant, if you are that adverse to learning even by osmosis the ‘productive’ bar would have to be set at grass-hopper level. [/QUOTE] And yet some people manage it. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/40 "2007-06-21T12:51:13Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] And yet some people manage it. Go figure. [/QUOTE] Really? :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811.md?page=3)