# Utter ignorance of astronomy **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 21, 2007, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811 "2007-06-21T05:04:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/141 "2007-06-22T05:04:07Z")
[QUOTE=tagos] But then again, I was loudly mocking people who thought the dark side of the moon was permanently dark to an educated friend and slowly became aware of the utter silence my rant engendered. What did you imagine causes the moon to have phases I politely asked. (Okay, the odd ‘WTF’ might have crept in). The Earth’s shadow she replied. [/QUOTE] After reading this, I asked myself, “what _does_ cause the moon’s phases, after all?” So I went and [read about it](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_phase), and the little diagram in this article made it clear, although there are a few things about it that I still don’t entirely understand. A 3-D model of the system would probably help. I’m quite educated, too, and I know a lot about science. I probably did hear about the cause of the moon’s phases at some point – in high school or so, because I’ve never taken an astronomy class – but I forgot about it since it just isn’t such an important part of my life. I know a lot of trivia, too, but astronomy has never been one of my hobbies. I think I understand what causes the seasons, but I’m sure that if I were to explain it from memory to Dopers, I’d find out that my understanding has a lot of gaps in it. I’m probably ready to agree that people should know that the moon revolves around the Earth and that the Earth revolves around the Sun. But there are many things that you may believe that everyone should know, that you know merely because they interest you. Not everyone has the same hobbies. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/142 "2007-06-22T05:29:01Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] [He wasn’t - or, at least, it depends on how you define “the United States.”](http://www.snopes.com/history/american/hanson.htm) [/QUOTE] whooosh ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/143 "2007-06-22T05:49:38Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] whooosh [/QUOTE] ☹ Feeble attempt to salvage some pride: So how exactly was I supposed to know that you didn’t actually think that when it’s a common enough misconception to make it onto Snopes? Especially after assertions were seriously made about Arthur Conan Doyle which I addressed in the same post? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/144 "2007-06-22T07:02:23Z")
I don’t understand what rotation and revolution have to do with anything in the OP of this thread. Why would you appeal to those concepts in order to explain that the moon goes around the Earth? I mean, of course, another way to say this is that the moon revolves around the Earth. But what I’m asking is, what was the purpose of introducing this term and contrasting it with the term “rotate?” What’s the relevance of rotation to any good explanation of the Moon’s revolutions? Why introduce the term “revolve?” And so on. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/145 "2007-06-22T09:36:39Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] I think this is probably true for most people who aren’t astronomers, astronauts, or werewolves. [/QUOTE] You were, I presume, awake to the irony that it was **Angua** to whom you were responding with this comment? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/146 "2007-06-22T09:44:42Z")
[QUOTE=Tangent] I want to respond to those of you (like **Bryan Ekers** ) saying “What difference does it make if some people don’t know these things? It has no impact on their lives.” [/QUOTE] That’s not _quite_ my position. Rather, I contend that feelings of anger, bemusement or elitism about the situation is a waste of time. As a teacher, I’m sure you’ve encountered students who weren’t interested in what you were teaching, and many more you might have been certain would forget most of the sbject matter once they’d passed the course. There’s a certain futility in trying to force this to change. Ideally, I guess, you’ll inspire 10% or 15% to pursue careers in science or engineering and those’ll be the ones who keep technology advancing, benefitting the other 85-95% who, ideally, will have some vague idea of how “science” works and the ability to look things up when they get curious about specific points, but the rest of the time they’ll happily get on with their lives. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/147 "2007-06-22T10:01:40Z")
[QUOTE=Scissorjack] The Big Dipper is occulted by Uranus, I know that much. [/QUOTE] I don’t usually find the Auto-ladle ribbing funny anymore, but this? This is pure genius.Because it’s topical. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/148 "2007-06-22T13:41:49Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] Ideally, I guess, you’ll inspire 10% or 15% to pursue careers in science or engineering and those’ll be the ones who keep technology advancing, benefitting the other 85-95% [/QUOTE] I take it that you had little interest in arithmetic? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/59ef9b/32.png) [@Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_fight_the_hypothetical)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/149 "2007-06-22T14:16:14Z")
[QUOTE=Lumpy] The other week a co-worker asked me, in all seriousness, if the Earth goes around the Moon or the Moon goes around the Earth. After five minutes of using one-syllable words, I was able to explain the difference between rotation and revolution. Impressed by my genius level knowledge of astronomy, she then asked me a real toughy: “But all those outer planets and moons like Neptune and Pluto- what are they **for**?” [/QUOTE] Playing devil’s advocate for a second, what about all the advances humankind made before we realized these things? In fact it would seem that some of the concepts discussed here would not have been known without the invention of the telescope, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/150 "2007-06-22T15:09:51Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] I take it that you had little interest in arithmetic? 😉 [/QUOTE] I prefer to blame it on an indifferent typing teacher. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/151 "2007-06-22T15:27:42Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] So how exactly was I supposed to know that you didn’t actually think that when it’s a common enough misconception to make it onto Snopes? [/QUOTE] Context, I guess. The fact that my overall post was rather lacking in seriousness and I opened with a typical sixth grade trivia joke? Don’t sweat it: my own rush to pedantry gets me whooshed quite a bit, around here. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/152 "2007-06-22T16:00:29Z")
[QUOTE=bluethree] How does assholish come into the equation? Ignorance of trivia is assholish? People should know the correct full names of composers of music they don’t particularly like, even though those aren’t the names said composers were known by? I’m not seeing the assholery. Here’s another one for you: What was Rembrandt’s first name? Really, my beef is with fachverwirrt for his/her use of the word ‘asshole.’ [/QUOTE] Just to clarify… **Bryan Ekers** said: > [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > I’d consider it rude for someone to mock me for not knowing or caring about basic art/music history. So I rudely belittled him for his (presumed) ignorance of a trivial bit of musical minutiae. It was a joke. Woooosh ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/153 "2007-06-22T16:14:17Z")
I suspected it was a whoosh. I just wish someone had clued me in before my second post. _grumble_ ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/154 "2007-06-22T16:46:15Z")
[QUOTE=zut] > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **RedSwinglineOne** > I hope somewhere there is a message board where mechanics, carpenters and the like sit around and mock the “nerds and geeks with their heads buried in books, wasting time staring into the sky pondering the boundries of the universe, dragging down society by having never learned anything useful like how to install a ceiling fan or rebuild a transmission.” To be fair, we’re talking about extremely basic knowledge of astronomy, not something as complex as rebuilding a transmission or even installing a ceiling fan. A better analogy would probably be, “nerds and geeks with their heads buried in books, wasting time staring into the sky pondering the boundries of the universe, dragging down society by having never learned anything useful like the fact that electricity travels through metal, or that there are gears in a transmission.” [/QUOTE] Except my point was not to point out the relative complexities of things one might be capable of understanding, but to the practicality of the things one chooses to invest their time in. While I agree it seems natural to me to be curious about the world around me, I don’t mock someone for concentrating on the steel between their hands rather that the sky above their heads. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/155 "2007-06-22T17:42:40Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s also worth noting that the words were in the mouth of a character, not the author. Regarding Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and the fairies, this statement just isn’t true. His book **The Coming of the Fairies** wasn’t fiction – it purported to be fact. And not a tongue-in-cheek “fact” like that book “The Snouters”, or Doyle’s own “explanation” of those Shifting Coffins (if Joe Nickell is to be believed). Doyle REALLY DID BELIEVE that fairies existed, and said so not only in this book, but elsewhere: > **[The Coming of the Fairies (Extraordinary World): Doyle Sir, Arthur Conan, Lynch,...](https://www.amazon.com/Coming-Fairies-Extraordinary-World/dp/0803266553)** > > The Coming of the Fairies (Extraordinary World) \[Doyle Sir, Arthur Conan, Lynch, John M.\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. The Coming of the Fairies (Extraordinary World) ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/156 "2007-06-22T21:32:10Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] Regarding Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and the fairies, this statement just isn’t true. His book **The Coming of the Fairies** wasn’t fiction – it purported to be fact. And not a tongue-in-cheek “fact” like that book “The Snouters”, or Doyle’s own “explanation” of those Shifting Coffins (if Joe Nickell is to be believed). Doyle REALLY DID BELIEVE that fairies existed, and said so not only in this book, but elsewhere: > **[The Coming of the Fairies (Extraordinary World): Doyle Sir, Arthur Conan, Lynch,...](https://www.amazon.com/Coming-Fairies-Extraordinary-World/dp/0803266553)** > > The Coming of the Fairies (Extraordinary World) \[Doyle Sir, Arthur Conan, Lynch, John M.\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. The Coming of the Fairies (Extraordinary World) [/QUOTE] Fascinating. Just as well, then, that I was talking about the Holmes quote on not filling up the head with useless information, and nothing to do with fairies. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/157 "2007-06-22T22:33:30Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] I don’t usually find the Auto-ladle ribbing funny anymore, but this? This is pure genius.Because it’s topical. [/QUOTE] I’m just relieved somebody got the joke. ---
**Author:** ![sunacres](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@sunacres](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunacres)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/158 "2007-06-22T23:47:14Z")
[QUOTE=Baldwin] I think, paradoxically, it’s modern civilization that contributes to basic lack of knowledge about the night sky. Our pre-industrial ancestors mostly lived in small villages, with little artificial light (and no tv) and were acutely aware of the stars, Moon and planets. Living in Atlanta, I hardly even see the stars, and can only see the Milky Way if I’m really out in the country. If I didn’t have a particular interest, it would be easy to forget there’s anything up there. [/QUOTE] Good point, and it supports my reluctant agreement that ignorance of basic astronomy is a sad but excusable orientation. As a youth I was an avid stargazer, enchanted by cosmology, loved astronomy in college, have always owned a telescope. But after college I took a job overseas and spent a couple of years in the deserts of Saudi Arabia where we had fewer than 10 cloudy nights out of 365 and not one lumen of man-made light for hundreds of miles in every direction. Just walking from my quarters to the mess tent every evening was enough to discover what a quantum difference the effect of locality has. The sky was a riot of stars and the Milky Way was not just vivid, but spectacularly so. You couldn’t help but notice that some of the “stars” changed relative positions and some didn’t. Even retrograde motion was obvious with casual routine observation. Knowledge of the sky (and the consequent development of geometry and navigation) was as natural to the ancient inhabitants of those sands as a good working knowledge of the best sushi bars is to modern urban denizens. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/59ef9b/32.png) [@Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_fight_the_hypothetical)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/159 "2007-06-22T23:52:05Z")
[QUOTE=Scissorjack] I’m just relieved somebody got the joke. [/QUOTE] Shirley you jest… that was comic gold! ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/160 "2007-06-23T00:07:48Z")
Maybe some people think ignorance of basic astronomy is good because the French are like that and it goes without saying that anything the French do is superior. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhlERjW0bhw) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811.md?page=9)