# Utter ignorance of astronomy **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 21, 2007, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811 "2007-06-21T05:04:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/161 "2007-06-23T05:08:15Z")
[QUOTE=rowrrbazzle] Maybe some people think ignorance of basic astronomy is good because the French are like that and it goes without saying that anything the French do is superior. ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/IhlERjW0bhw/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/IhlERjW0bhw?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque [/QUOTE] At first glace I thought the question translated to “What has gravity around that of Earth?” i.e. which body has a gravitational pull comparable to Earth’s (Venus, with a similar mass and volume), but at least my knowledge of French is better than that audience’s knowledge of astronomy. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/162 "2007-06-23T11:39:05Z")
[QUOTE=rowrrbazzle] Maybe some people think ignorance of basic astronomy is good because the French are like that and it goes without saying that anything the French do is superior. ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/IhlERjW0bhw/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/IhlERjW0bhw?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque [/QUOTE] I’m not even sure of the question, but from context was it something to do with tides? But mon deiu, the moron’s le chique was le hot! ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/163 "2007-06-23T13:21:57Z")
The question was “What revolves around the Earth?”. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/164 "2007-06-23T16:59:07Z")
The correct answer was, “Sacre bleu, I do not know, but the Earth certainly revolves around France! Haw haw!” ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/165 "2007-06-28T18:32:25Z")
\>Not knowing the moon revolves around the Earth is something that should make a person blush with shame. Unfortunately it’s more true to say the moon revolves around the Sun. Since the Sun is about 400 times further from the moon than the Earth is, and since the Earth-moon line rotates about a dozen times during a rotation of the moon-sun line, the path of the moon around the sun is a pretty clean circle, its radius changing by one part in 200 a dozen times during one cycle. So if you could stand North of the sun and watch the moon itself, you’d see a circle, which almost half the time is convex towards the Earth. Though I bet a similar argument applies to the Earth, Moon and Sun all traveling in about the same circle around the galactic center (I didn’t check the numbers tho). ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/166 "2007-06-28T20:46:14Z")
[QUOTE=Tangent] I’m a science teacher, so this topic is one that hits close to home for me. I want to respond to those of you (like **Bryan Ekers** ) saying “What difference does it make if some people don’t know these things? It has no impact on their lives.” Well, people who don’t know these things often become school board members, or parents who are voting for school board members, or school administrators. These people make decisions about what and how science will be taught in our schools. They may not understand why Young Earth Creationism or Intelligent Design are any less valid than current geological and evolutionary theories. A little basic understanding of astronomy and geology I think would go a long way toward a more rational world. [/QUOTE] While this may be true, it’s not the less true that you can be bone-ignorant about scientific facts, and still accept Science’s word over the Bible’s any day of the week. I offer myself up as Exhibit A. Ask me a question about something painfully basic in physics or chemistry, and I’m likely not to know the answer. But this does not make me a doubter of anthropogenic global warming or evolution. On the contrary. Even if I am ignorant of certain scientific facts, I’m still vastly more of a believer in Science than I am in religion, simply because Science can put something in my hand and say, “Look – see what we’ve accomplished.” And a the risk of establishing myself as a friend of ignorance, I do think we ought to maintain a certain humility about the things we don’t know – certain as we should be that our blind spots would amaze and pain our friends, if only they were known. The issue of “basic knowledge” is completely situational and culture-bound. Moreover, we’ve entered an age of specialization. These days, narrowness is often a virtue – not because your brain has practical limits, as Doyle thought, but because the hours of the day have limits. The realm of knowledge has exploded, and I’m sorry, but there’s just no time in my day for Kant and astrophysics. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/167 "2007-06-29T18:22:36Z")
[QUOTE=Scissorjack] The Big Dipper is occulted by Uranus, I know that much. [/QUOTE] Boy, am I glad I came back to this thread. I had lost interest in it a while ago. This is gold. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/168 "2007-06-30T04:41:21Z")
[QUOTE=Lumpy] I then related the above story to my wife. After I confirmed that the Moon goes around the Earth and the Earth and Moon go around the Sun, she then added: “And the whole universe goes around the North Star”. :smack: [/QUOTE] I’m somewhat surprised that after more than a week and 160+ posts, neither the OP nor any the scientifically literate Dopers here have bothered to defend **Lumpy** ’s poor wife. In fact, the whole Universe _does_ go around the North Star, once a day, for all observers in the Earth’s Northern Hemisphere. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/169 "2007-06-30T05:03:22Z")
[QUOTE=commasense] I’m somewhat surprised that after more than a week and 160+ posts, neither the OP nor any the scientifically literate Dopers here have bothered to defend **Lumpy** ’s poor wife. In fact, the whole Universe _does_ go around the North Star, once a day, for all observers in the Earth’s Northern Hemisphere. [/QUOTE] I’m not sure if I’ve been whooshed. A revolves around B just when A accelerates in a way which causes A to travel along an eliptical path encompassing B.\* The universe does not accelerate in such a fashion. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/170 "2007-06-30T05:19:05Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] I’m not sure if I’ve been whooshed. A revolves around B just when A accelerates in a way which causes A to travel along an eliptical path encompassing B.\* The universe does not accelerate in such a fashion. -FrL- [/QUOTE] If you are in the northern hemisphere go outside at night, find the north star, observe. You will find that it appears to remain in one place and all the other stars appear to rotate around it. commasense was not implying that the universe actually does rotate around it merely that it appears to from the northern hemisphere of the Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/171 "2007-06-30T05:24:52Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] If you are in the northern hemisphere go outside at night, find the north star, observe. You will find that it appears to remain in one place and all the other stars appear to rotate around it. commasense was not implying that the universe actually does rotate around it merely that it appears to from the northern hemisphere of the Earth. [/QUOTE] But the lady he was defending said “The Moon goes around the Earth, the Earth goes around the Sun, and the whole Universe goes around the North Star.” The idea is that the universe revolves around the North Star in the same way that the Earth revolves around the sun. And this is not a claim that should be defended. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/172 "2007-06-30T05:42:41Z")
The last sentence of his post said “for all observers in the Earth’s Northern Hemisphere.” It was IMO an attempt at humor. I don’t think he was trying to say that it does in fact rotate but merely appears to do so. Whats more indefensible is TokyoPlayer laughing at his ex-mil for asking if the sun disappears during an eclipse, which of course it does. While it may not cease to exist it certainly does disappear. Though to be fair it could be a language issue. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/173 "2007-06-30T14:47:51Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] But the lady he was defending said “The Moon goes around the Earth, the Earth goes around the Sun, and the whole Universe goes around the North Star.” The idea is that the universe revolves around the North Star in the same way that the Earth revolves around the sun. And this is not a claim that should be defended. [/QUOTE] My point was that there is a sense in which the statement is true, and it is perfectly easy to understand why someone might be confused about it. When I gave planetarium lectures, I could speed up the earth’s daily motion and let people see how all the stars in the sky _seem_ to spin around the North Star. Although I always tried to make it clear that this was merely an _appearance_ caused by the earth’s rotation, no doubt some of the thousands of people who heard me misunderstood the concept as, apparently, did **Lucky** ’s wife when it was explained to her. But it’s an understandable misunderstanding, and not in the same league, IMHO, as the other examples of astronomical ignorance cited in this thread. In fact, it seems to indicate that Mrs. Lucky has actually absorbed some information about the night sky, but just not perfectly. We should cut her some slack, is all I’m saying. And before we mock anyone for thinking the whole universe could spin around us once a day, don’t forget that that’s exactly what all the world’s astronomers and educated people thought for thousands of years before Mr. Copernicus came up with a better explanation. Thanks, **askeptic** , for your assistance. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2007, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/174 "2007-07-01T05:12:59Z")
[QUOTE=severus] After reading this, I asked myself, “what _does_ cause the moon’s phases, after all?” So I went and [read about it](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_phase), and the little diagram in this article made it clear, although there are a few things about it that I still don’t entirely understand. **A 3-D model of the system would probably help.** [/QUOTE] I made [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp7FQXSrmdQ) for the Dope because the question seems to pop up every now and then. Hope it helps. I pity those that don’t partake in all the mysteries the universe has to offer. Maybe I’m generalizing too far, but I come into contact with so many people throughout my day that have little to no interest in anything outside of their little lives, that I’m starting to immediately write it off as apathy or ignorance (in the true, proactive, sense of the word). It’s truly sad. Where did everyone’s curiosity run off to? I get strange looks from even my friends and family when I mention the simplest scientific principals that may apply to whatever conversation we’re having. Alas, I learned long ago not to bring anything scientific up out of the blue asa conversation starter. Dammit, I’m gonna start wearing my knowledge on the topic proudly. And if it makes someone feel stoopid, then fuck them for not ripping their heads out of their stagnant colon every once in a while to take a look around. I can’t keep watering down my thoughts because someone was eating paste the day we learned about F = MA. Shit, I started talking to my 8 yo daughter about general relativity, and by-george, I think she was getting it. Even my 4 year old son knows the planet names in order, and most people look upon that as genius. Wake the fuck up, ignoramuses… he’s not gifted, he’s just curious. He has wonder. He has a thirst, that I knew as a kid his age, and I’ll see to it that I keep it saturated. All I ask is that people don’t stop learning. When I meet people that are smarter than me on a particular subject (and that’s a lot), I make an effort to learn from them. All I get from the sheep is hollow stares and a change of subject. So yeh… a little interest in the sciences would go a long way, and more curiosity in general is never a bad thing. Unless you’re a cat. Right, Schrödinger? ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2007, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/175 "2007-07-01T14:49:29Z")
**cmyk** , that model is really cool. You matched the rotational speed of the moon with its revolution about the Earth, which is correct, but it seems you matched the rotation of the Earth itself as well. Did you do that intentionally, or am I misinterpreting the video? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2007, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/176 "2007-07-01T15:26:46Z")
[QUOTE=flight] **cmyk** , that model is really cool. You matched the rotational speed of the moon with its revolution about the Earth, which is correct, but it seems you matched the rotation of the Earth itself as well. Did you do that intentionally, or am I misinterpreting the video? [/QUOTE] I spotted that, too. It looks like the moon is in a tidal lock over east Asia. The Earth should have rotated about 29 times during the lunar passage but that’s a minor glitch in an otherwise useful animation. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2007, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/177 "2007-07-01T17:36:07Z")
[QUOTE=flight] **cmyk** , that model is really cool. You matched the rotational speed of the moon with its revolution about the Earth, which is correct, but it seems you matched the rotation of the Earth itself as well. Did you do that intentionally, or am I misinterpreting the video? [/QUOTE] Not intentionally. In my eagerness to put this together, the ~29 day moon cycle was a gross oversight on my part. :smack: I’ve been meaning to correct that, and upload an updated version. But, I plan on making more of these sorts of videos (and of much better quality too). ---
**Author:** ![Operation\_Ripper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/34f0e0/32.png) [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2007, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/178 "2007-07-01T21:51:24Z")
Eh, broads. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/179 "2007-07-02T04:31:29Z")
[QUOTE=cmyk] I made [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp7FQXSrmdQ) for the Dope because the question seems to pop up every now and then. Hope it helps. I pity those that don’t partake in all the mysteries the universe has to offer. Maybe I’m generalizing too far, but I come into contact with so many people throughout my day that have little to no interest in anything outside of their little lives, that I’m starting to immediately write it off as apathy or ignorance (in the true, proactive, sense of the word). It’s truly sad. Where did everyone’s curiosity run off to? I get strange looks from even my friends and family when I mention the simplest scientific principals that may apply to whatever conversation we’re having. Alas, I learned long ago not to bring anything scientific up out of the blue asa conversation starter. Dammit, I’m gonna start wearing my knowledge on the topic proudly. And if it makes someone feel stoopid, then fuck them for not ripping their heads out of their stagnant colon every once in a while to take a look around. I can’t keep watering down my thoughts because someone was eating paste the day we learned about F = MA. Shit, I started talking to my 8 yo daughter about general relativity, and by-george, I think she was getting it. Even my 4 year old son knows the planet names in order, and most people look upon that as genius. Wake the fuck up, ignoramuses… he’s not gifted, he’s just curious. He has wonder. He has a thirst, that I knew as a kid his age, and I’ll see to it that I keep it saturated. All I ask is that people don’t stop learning. When I meet people that are smarter than me on a particular subject (and that’s a lot), I make an effort to learn from them. All I get from the sheep is hollow stares and a change of subject. So yeh… a little interest in the sciences would go a long way, and more curiosity in general is never a bad thing. Unless you’re a cat. Right, Schrödinger? [/QUOTE] _AtomicDog stands on his table and gives cmyk a slow clap_ ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811/180 "2007-07-04T19:25:23Z")
[QUOTE=cmyk] I pity those that don’t partake in all the mysteries the universe has to offer. Maybe I’m generalizing too far, but I come into contact with so many people throughout my day that have little to no interest in anything outside of their little lives, that I’m starting to immediately write it off as apathy or ignorance (in the true, proactive, sense of the word). It’s truly sad. Where did everyone’s curiosity run off to? I get strange looks from even my friends and family when I mention the simplest scientific principals that may apply to whatever conversation we’re having. Alas, I learned long ago not to bring anything scientific up out of the blue asa conversation starter. Dammit, I’m gonna start wearing my knowledge on the topic proudly. And if it makes someone feel stoopid, then fuck them for not ripping their heads out of their stagnant colon every once in a while to take a look around. I can’t keep watering down my thoughts because someone was eating paste the day we learned about F = MA. Shit, I started talking to my 8 yo daughter about general relativity, and by-george, I think she was getting it. Even my 4 year old son knows the planet names in order, and most people look upon that as genius. Wake the fuck up, ignoramuses… he’s not gifted, he’s just curious. He has wonder. He has a thirst, that I knew as a kid his age, and I’ll see to it that I keep it saturated. All I ask is that people don’t stop learning. When I meet people that are smarter than me on a particular subject (and that’s a lot), I make an effort to learn from them. All I get from the sheep is hollow stares and a change of subject. So yeh… a little interest in the sciences would go a long way, and more curiosity in general is never a bad thing. Unless you’re a cat. Right, Schrödinger? [/QUOTE] Uh huh, but anyway I was saying to Bill, did you see that thing on that one show last night, where the dude like totally fell in the ditch off that ramp? I was like, haha, lamer! Shall we go and get some burgers, I’m bored… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utter-ignorance-of-astronomy/408811.md?page=10)