[QUOTE=ArthurConanDoyle]
It is a mistake to think that that little room has elastic walls and can distend to any extent. Depend upon it there comes a time when for every addition of knowledge you forget something that you knew before. It is of the highest importance, therefore, not to have useless facts elbowing out the useful ones.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t believe this. I have no idea how many GB of information a brain can store but it’s my hunch that most of us have plenty of excess storage capacity and thus plenty of room for basic knowledge of astronomy.
This notion that you only need to know what you need to get along on a daily basis doesn’t make sense to me. It’s better to learn all you can and then decide if it has any usefulness to you. My older daughters often asked in high school “why should we learn this? We aren’t going to use it?” That attitude meant that they only bothered to learn that which they already knew might be of use to them, in other words precious little.
Lumpy’s coworker, for one. I’m assuming his/her lack of knowledge about the moon doesn’t affect his/her abilities at Lumpy’s workplace, or at least Lumpy hasn’t provided any such information.
And don’t act so dubious - a great many people accumulate and retain what knowledge they need for their day-to-day routines and enjoyment and don’t feel compelled to go further. This doesn’t make them bad people, not does such ignorance drag down society. It only demonstrates that it is not necessary for every member of a society to understand science for the society overall to enjoy scientific progress.
In one of my more annoyed moments, I said as much to a pseudo-science booster on this board (it may have been Aeschines, but I can’t remember enough of the exact wording to do a proper search). While I still hold his determined ignorance in contempt, I don’t get angry about him anymore, or wonder at his existence, nor would I bother to Pit him for it.
It’s hard to believe the ignorance that’s being defended here. I can understand Joe Sixpack not knowing which is brighter, Sirius or Polaris, but not knowing if the Moon rotates around the Earth? Or how long it takes for the Earth to go around the Sun? That’s basic knowledge along the level of knowing who the first US President was, or whether trees are flora or fauna. Sure, you may not need to know these things to work at your job as a street cleaner, but honestly, have you never attended the first grade?
Not long ago me (or someone) said something about when the Vernal Equinox was, and a Doper (of all people!) said something about how it might have been around the middle of Spring this year.
[QUOTE=Angua]
Er, but the seasons are defined by the spring equinox, the summer solstice, the autumnal equinox and the winter solstice. By astronomical definition today is the first day of summer. (Or am I being wooshed?)
[/QUOTE]
[There is a widespread misconception in this country–which extends, I might note, to the makers of most calendars, dictionaries, and encyclopedias–that summer “officially” starts on the day of the summer solstice, June 21 or 22, which is the longest day of the year. Americans also believe (1) that there is some valid scientific reason for doing it that way, and (2) that everybody in the Northern Hemisphere does it that way, and always has.
[QUOTE=MrDibble]
I’ll prefer not to take my opinions on what knowledge is necessary from a known heroin addict, thank you very much.
[/QUOTE]
Cocaine, not heroin, if you please. (Though both substances could be purchased legally down at the chemist’s way back when.) But I’d also have to disagree with Mr. Holmes (and Dr. Doyle), and would say that you probably shouldn’t count on 19th century medicine for information on how the brain works.
Too cloudy where I live. The night before, the Moon was directly between Venus and Saturn, with the three in a tight grouping. Couldn’t see that, either.
You’re not being whooshed. There is no point in time at which a season “officially” starts; it’s a weather-related event, variable by geography and climatic changes, not an astronomical event. Here in Georgia, I’d say summer started about six weeks ago.
[QUOTE=Malacandra]
I spotted the crescent Moon and Venus pretty close by on Tuesday evening. Seems they must have got mighty close a few hours earlier. Anyone see it?
[/QUOTE]
The moon actually eclipsed Venus on tuesday.
Here’s a lovely picture.
I missed it.
To me, what makes this ignorance – particularly the “does the Earth go around the moon?” question – so irritating isn’t whether or not it’s something we should know. It’s that we already DO know it.
You can NOT become an adult in the United States of America without being exposed to the concept. In public schools it’s directly taught to you. More than once.
Of course, God help the home-schooled [but I think that’s part of the idea.]
It’s not that these people have somehow avoided exposure to this basic fact, it’s that they’ve managed to ignore and/or forget it. It’s almost a *willful * ignorance.
You’re not being whooshed. There is no point in time at which a season “officially” starts; it’s a weather-related event, variable by geography and climatic changes, not an astronomical event. Here in Georgia, I’d say summer started about six weeks ago.
Phil Plait, aka The Bad Astronomer begs to differ, though he does admit its a silly definition:
[QUOTE=The Bad Astronomer]
I think I will break from my usual format of Bad Astronomy/Good Astronomy by saying that the way we define seasons currently is not strictly bad, but I feel (in my opinion!) that it could be better. **The definition of when the seasons begin is at the moment of solstice or equinox; that is, winter (in the north) starts on December 22nd and summer starts on June 22nd. **I feel instead that the midpoint of the seasons are really at these times. The seasons themselves start a month and a half before then.
[/quote]
(Bolding mine). Whilst I agree that its a crummy definition, by astronomical definition this is when the seasons begin, although really they are the midpoints.
I’ve read through the whole thread & just want to chime in & say I share your dismay at such ignorance.
I will not mock someone to their face. If it’s not a hopeless case, I’m really glad to explain stuff.
In my work environment, geography is the most noticeable area of ignorance. (Mostly from my immediate superior, alas.) I don’t have the capital of Uganda on the tip of my tongue, but I know the country is in Africa. Rather than blurting out that she should have learned all that stuff by 5th grade, I’ll take my little globe down from the bookcase. (The folks you mention should have learned that stuff earlier. And you’d need more expensive teaching aids.)
It sounds as though you practiced forebearance. Then came here… Isn’t that why we have the Pit?
[QUOTE=Angua]
(Bolding mine). Whilst I agree that its a crummy definition, by astronomical definition this is when the seasons begin, although really they are the midpoints.
[/QUOTE]
Whether or not they are official is beside the point. The commonly accepted definitions are astonomical. Is that official? No, I’m not aware of any law or statute that declares when the seasons begin and end. But ask the average person on the street, and you will get a date, usually the 21st of month 3, 6, 9, or 12.
Personally, for me Summer starts at 5pm on the Friday before Memorial Day. It ends on the first real non-beach day in late September or early October. Winter begins the Friday after Thanksgiving. There is no such thing as Spring.
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
And don’t act so dubious - a great many people accumulate and retain what knowledge they need for their day-to-day routines and enjoyment and don’t feel compelled to go further. This doesn’t make them bad people, not does such ignorance drag down society.
[/QUOTE]
You have to actively work at being that dumb you don’t have to ‘acquire’ it.
And if it doesn’t make them ‘bad’ per se it makes them ignorant, stupid and functionally scientifically illiterate. And they do drag society down by having the kind of flapping open minds that suck up so much new age horse shit and whose undeveloped faculties create a climate in which it flourishes.
Not knowing the moon revolves around the Earth is something that should make a person blush with shame.
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke]
And you’d need more expensive teaching aids.)
[/QUOTE]
Gee, thanks a lot. You forced me, practically at gun point, to spend money on that site and fill my tiny apartment with neat but ulimately useless junk.
[QUOTE=tdn]
Whether or not they are official is beside the point. The commonly accepted definitions are astonomical. Is that official? No, I’m not aware of any law or statute that declares when the seasons begin and end. But ask the average person on the street, and you will get a date, usually the 21st of month 3, 6, 9, or 12.
[/QUOTE]
I’m really missing your point here. Are you agreeing with me? Disagreeing with me, or what?
Oh, and the definitions are the ones, which IIRC, are set by the International Astronomical Union and based on astronomical events. Its about as official as you get for astronomical phenomena.
