# Utterly Pointless Sci-Fi Debate **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 2, 2001, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990 "2001-10-02T16:24:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990/21 "2001-10-03T02:13:15Z")
**Katisha** , just for the record I said it’s an “intergalactic society, two of whose galaxies…” I implied there were more than two. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990/22 "2001-10-03T02:34:20Z")
Instantaneous speed is nice… but Doctor Who’s TARDIS can get there YESTERDAY! ---
**Author:** ![Trucido](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@Trucido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trucido)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990/23 "2001-10-03T03:28:34Z")
You’re all forgetting that fastest of all ships, the one powered by bad news. Of course, no one’s ever going to be glad to see you dock. (Damn, I need to reread **Hitchhiker’s Guide** ) ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990/24 "2001-10-03T06:58:15Z")
Yeah, but c’mon… fastest isn’t always the bestest. Lookit the _Falcon_: A glorified space jalopy. How can you get cooler than that? (Without bringing in Boba Fett, of course). ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990/25 "2001-10-03T18:09:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > \*\*Well, I don’t think anyone has ever developed a drive that works on this principle, but everyone knows that the speed of light is only a fraction of the speed of dark. Because wherever light goes somewhere, dark is always there first. \*\* If anyone did develop it, it’d probably be Terry Pratchett in either _Strata_ or _The Dark Side of the Sun,_ since those are his only sci-fi novels, and AFAIK he’s the one who came up with the “speed of dark” bit to begin with… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990/26 "2001-10-04T01:16:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\* > If anyone did develop it, it’d probably be Terry Pratchett in either _Strata_ or _The Dark Side of the Sun,_ since those are his only sci-fi novels, and AFAIK he’s the one who came up with the “speed of dark” bit to begin with… \*\* And don’t you wish he’d do more? _Dark Side of the Sun_ was a great book, maybe a little rocky getting started, but it was one of his earlier efforts. And i loved the surprise ending! 'Course, that’d mean fewer Discworld books, so p’raps we should forget I brought this up. ---
**Author:** ![Shortie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@Shortie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shortie)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990/27 "2001-10-04T19:14:57Z")
1.)Hyperdrive, Star Wars 3.)Hyperspace, Babylon 5 These are faster than warp in general, though both vary somewhat according to how high-tech you are. Wars is around a million c or so, while B5 is around 500,000 c+ 4.)Starburst, Farscape I can’t remember for sure, but isn’t there some sort of distance limitation on starburst? Thus in effect your overall speed isn’t that fast. 2.)Warp Factor Nine, Star Trek Relatively slow. Apparently Warp 9 is 1516 c, but Warp 9.9 would be 3053 c. Transwarp seems to be 10^5 c or more, though that changes as the writers can never remember. And going at warp 10 means that not only do you occupy every position in the universe at once, but that you instantly evolve into what your species will become in the future. Or something.:rolleyes: Fastest I can think of at all is the Culture. 183 trillion c. Sure for only a few micro-seconds, but it’s still not bad. (Iain M. Banks, Excession) Oh yeah, and an Star Destroyer would so kick the Enterprise-D’s butt. ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990/28 "2001-10-04T22:05:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fiver \* > \*\*Katisha, just for the record I said it’s an “intergalactic society, two of whose galaxies…” I implied there were more than two. \*\* Yeah, you did! Sorry, I plead brain-lock… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990/29 "2001-10-05T08:16:54Z")
Battlefield Earth had teleporters that would instantly transport matter between universes. ---
**Author:** ![Cougarfang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c67d28/32.png) [@Cougarfang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cougarfang)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990/30 "2001-10-05T09:52:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*Cliffy… > > > [@](#): > > > > which would win in a fight, the Falcon or the Enterprise-D? > > Anybody knows that the Enterprise would win that battle. The Falcon is just too overmatched. However, when you pit a Star Destroyer against the Enterprise, then you get a fair(er) fight. \*\* weeeeeeeeeeeell, it all depends on who the directors want to win. maybe there’s a teeny tiny little hatch that leads to a hold of extra-extra combustible stuff, a teeny tiny little flaw in the blueprints, that the Falcon can reach with its proton torpedos… 😃 _d&r_ ---
**Author:** ![bagkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ab992/32.png) [@bagkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bagkitty)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990/31 "2001-10-05T09:59:24Z")
At the risk of sounding even more sarcastic than I actually am, this is probably the most accurately labelled thread I have run across. That having been said, my vote is with the Guild Navigators folding space in _Dune_. (squeeeeeks in as a movie) ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990/32 "2001-10-05T10:17:43Z")
Shortie… > [@](#): > > Oh yeah, and an Star Destroyer would so kick the Enterprise-D’s butt. I love you. Marry me. That’s not a request. Cougarfang… > [@](#): > > maybe there’s a teeny tiny little hatch that leads to a hold of extra-extra combustible stuff, a teeny tiny little flaw in the blueprints, that the Falcon can reach with its proton torpedos… If any ship were designed that way, it would definitely be a Star Trek ship. ---
**Author:** ![Cougarfang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c67d28/32.png) [@Cougarfang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cougarfang)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990/33 "2001-10-05T10:19:33Z")
_choke on clam chowder, snicker, snicker, snicker_ [/balatant attempt at boosting post count] _dives off thread, still snickering_ ---
**Author:** ![Venkman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ec9cab/32.png) [@Venkman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Venkman)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990/34 "2001-10-05T17:38:59Z")
Don’t forget about the instantaneous “wishing makes it so” method used by Jane in the later Ender books. ---
**Author:** ![Bartman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@Bartman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bartman)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990/35 "2001-10-05T17:39:08Z")
I’m psychic! I knew this thread had devolved into an Enterprise-D vs. ISD thread before I even opened it. 😉 That said, of the three I know of I would rate them such. SW- Hyperdrive. Ships of all classes travel from Core to Rim worlds and back in a matter of hours to days. Trans-Galactic travel takes roughly a week. SW has started exploration of neighboring galaxies but with lots of expansion room in their home galaxy there is no real drive for external exploration. Speed roughly 1 to 10 million C. B5- Hyperspace. Well it is really hard to pin down exact distances and speeds in B5. For one thing the scale has changed. For the first two seasons everything took place in area about 200ly across. This is galactically speaking, tiny. In the third season all this changed and suddenly everything was galactic in scale. For example when the characters discuss the locations of Shadow activity they are discussing an area roughly 1/10 of the galaxy. And they discuss the other regions as if they had current, reliable and accurate information about the rest. To add to the confusion about how far the ships are traveling, the show states that travel through hyperspace is not consistent. So while travel times from B5 to Earth and Centauri are roughly equal Centauri is stated as being twice as far from B5 as Earth. All this said, characters in the later seasons transit the galaxy in weeks to months and cover virtually any distance in the area covered by the primary narrative in a few days at most. Speed roughly .5 million C (or if you ignore everything after the first two seasons 1,000 C). ST- Warp. Travel within the Federation can take months. Travel across the galaxy takes nearly a century “at top warp.” All material consistently gives high warp speeds in the same ranges. Speed roughly 2000-6000 C. On the issue of SW vs. ST. An ISD would destroy a Galaxy class ship before Data could say “Perhaps we can modulate the shields using our deflector array to fire a tachion stream creating a harmonic field of chronotons.” The ISD has higher speeds, a more powerful barrage and stronger defenses. Given that it is also a dedicated military craft instead of a hybrid multi-function ship, and given that they don’t explode every time the warp core is bumped, I would say no contest. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990/36 "2001-10-05T17:57:13Z")
I’ll just reiterate what I said the last time the Star Destroyer debate came up: Any Federation warship could easily kick a SD’s butt. Unfortunately, there _aren’t_ any Federation warships. And an RMN battlecruiser could beat either, hands-down. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990/37 "2001-10-05T21:05:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bartman \* > \*\*On the issue of SW vs. ST. An ISD would destroy a Galaxy class ship before Data could say “Perhaps we can modulate the shields using our deflector array to fire a tachion stream creating a harmonic field of chronotons.” The ISD has higher speeds, a more powerful barrage and stronger defenses. Given that it is also a dedicated military craft instead of a hybrid multi-function ship, and given that they don’t explode every time the warp core is bumped, I would say no contest. \*\* I’d agree if it wasn’t for the Empire’s Achilles Heel philosophy of design. I mean, if a single fighter aircraft can take out the mother of all space stations, you might be able to kill a star destroyer by stuffing a cherry bomb in an air vent. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990/38 "2001-10-05T21:27:00Z")
Hey, why bother hijacking a perfectly good thread? Head on over to IMHO, where I’ve opened the debate up again with [Enterprise vs. Star Destroyer… again!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=91299) ---
**Author:** ![Shortie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@Shortie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shortie)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2001, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990/39 "2001-10-06T00:12:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Badtz Maru \* > \*\*Battlefield Earth had teleporters that would instantly transport matter between universes. \*\* I thought it was between planets? Though it’s a whiel since I read it, and I avoided the movie. **SPOOFE** , Thanks man, maybe later. **Chronos** , Sure, but I prefer Dahak or the Fury to Nike anyway. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2001, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990/40 "2001-10-06T10:47:49Z")
Hey, Shortie, do you also post over at Spacebattles with the same name? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/utterly-pointless-sci-fi-debate/84990.md?page=3)