# Uvalde, Texas school shooting - the political thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 24, 2022, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036 "2022-05-24T21:36:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/221 "2022-05-25T18:28:25Z")
It is being reported that multiple police officers engaged Ramos outside the building, but failed to stop him. Does anyone know the rules of engagement? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/222 "2022-05-25T18:32:40Z")
TX Gov, Abbott, emphatically reinforced: - that we already _have_ gun laws - that they aren’t stopping gun violence - so more gun laws won’t help, and - that the proof of the latter – which sounds vaguely familiar – is that Chicago and California have gun laws but that they still have gun violence. > **Slight detour** > > Mexico has fairly strict gun laws and still has shocking levels of gun violence, but if they had much stricter gun laws, would those levels increase, decrease, or remain static ? What if Mexico eliminated _all_ of its gun restrictions ? We have speed limits but people still speed. If we eliminated those speed limits, would average speeds increase, decrease, or remain static ? We have laws against murder, but … (yes: I’ll stop here) I don’t blame the evil cretins who sell this BS quite as much as I blame the ignorant rubes who lap it up. No. Establishing a no-smoking section in an airplane, or a no-peeing section in a swimming pool doesn’t achieve the desired objective: getting smoke out of passenger planes and pee out of swimming pools. He’s also blaming: - ‘evil,’ which must appeal to the religious conservatives (and isn’t even remotely actionable), and - mental health issues (which the Republicans aren’t interested in supporting; too much like Socialism Why am I not hearing about Hollywood action films and violent video games ? Did they wring the life out of those old tropes ? ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/223 "2022-05-25T18:37:56Z")
Well he also said his officers would get mental health care. Beto O’Rourke did a better job. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/224 "2022-05-25T18:44:10Z")
This is a factual question. Hope someone can help me confirm or not. I read this (bolding mine): > In fact, **there were armed school resource officers at Uvalde elementary school**. > > We still don’t know how the shooter got into the school, but we do know he drove a pickup truck into the barrier of the south entrance of the school, got out of his car, and **two police officers and an _armed school resource officer_ fired at him, but could not stop him from entering the building**. from this link…[We are broken.](https://www.readtangle.com/texas-school-shooting-robb-elementary/). No reason to think it’s not true, but it’s not a source I’ve used before. Just curious if this is true or not, and a better source of the info. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/225 "2022-05-25T18:53:23Z")
That’s what the [NYTimes](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/05/25/us/shooting-robb-elementary-uvalde) summary says, i.e. an armed law enforcement officer for the school district exchange fire with him outside the school but the shooter got past him into the school by which time two police officers had arrived and were met with fire as well. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/226 "2022-05-25T18:58:26Z")
Great, thank you for that. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/227 "2022-05-25T19:09:23Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > exchange fire with him outside the school but the shooter got past him The details of that encounter will be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/228 "2022-05-25T19:13:51Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > an armed law enforcement officer for the school district exchange fire with him outside the school but the shooter got past him into the school by which time two police officers had arrived and were met with fire as well. Yesterday I relayed the point expressed on The Five on Fox that armed guards are needed at every school building in America. I’m not going to watch, but I’m wondering how they will respond to this piece of news. My guess is crickets. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/229 "2022-05-25T19:22:43Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > From the outside looking in, it seems the lack of controls over where a gun goes once its been purchased is one of the many, many factors at play with the gun violence issue in the US. That is true, but if every-time a gun gets sold or transferred a background check and record must be done and transmitted, that gets rid of that issue. > [@Spoons](#): > > That’s what gun control should concentrate on: “Yes, you have the right under the Second Amendment. Now, show us some ID, and give us your full name and SSN on these forms, and a passport photo, and we’ll just get the serial number of the firearm, while you fill out this questionnaire about what you’re going to do with it, and we can process all this during a waiting period of three, four days. We’ll call you when you can pick it up, assuming all goes well.” That is more or less what happens now if you buy a gun from a gun store or dealer. And many of us want to extend the background checks to nearly all sales. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > Republican strategists are desperately wishing for you to make gun control the issue of the 2022 elections. They would fucking love it, absolutely jump for joy - if you make a big push for gun control right now. Yes, unless it is simply background checks. Americans like that idea. > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Guns might not helping, but the lack of social security and health support for people is a bigger existential threat to the US, IMO. And other issues. Voter rights, reproductive rights. > [@stui\_magpie](#): > > The level of poverty and homelessness in a first word country is ridiculous. I did a serious double take at the nice orderly seated lineup of beggers in Vegas last time I was there. Let’s not mention the Tenderloin in Frisco. True. > [@Babale](#): > > Self defense is NOT a legitimate need here in the States. It is. See Heller. The Supreme court has ruled. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/230 "2022-05-25T19:27:27Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Fox News solution: > > Armed guards at every school building in America. Wasn’t there an armed guard at the Florida high school? Who ran and hid when the shooting started? ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/231 "2022-05-25T19:27:42Z")
The reporting on this event varies a lot depending on what channel you watch. CNN cants things a lot differently than, say, Fox. I must say I lean towards CNN more than the other, but both have an eye on pushing their own agenda. What;s going to happen is that our attention will be caught by some other news event and the reporters will shift elsewhere. We will put it out of our minds because it’s so painful. It’s happened before and will happen again. How many remember this, from 1927? It’s less than a hundred years ago, one long lifetime. > **[Bath School disaster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > > Bolt-action rifle: > The Bath School disaster, also known as the Bath School massacre,\[Note 1\] was a series of violent attacks perpetrated by Andrew Kehoe on May 18, 1927, in Bath Township, Michigan, United States. The attacks killed 38 elementary schoolchildren and 6 adults, and injured at least 58 other people. Prior to his timed explosives detonating at the Bath Consolidated School building, Kehoe had murdered his wife, Nellie Price Kehoe, an... I don’t blame Mr. O’Rourke for interrupting that press conference. Yes, I know he’s Abbot’s political opponent, running for governor of Texas. But he was _right_ in saying we can’t wait, and that there’s _not_ “plenty of time” to deal with this. He was right in being visibly angry, and not speaking in calm measured tones about how it’s really a mental health problem. Gov. Abbot, with his on air defense of 18yr olds being able to buy long guns, was horrible. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/232 "2022-05-25T19:37:30Z")
and there was an armed guard (retired police officer) the other week in Buffalo supermarket. He died a hero no question. Just not able to prevent the deadly attack. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/233 "2022-05-25T19:53:26Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > But making it harder to acquire _and keep_ firearms is a start. Minimal grandfathering, especially in urban areas. People in rural/wilderness areas do have reasons to have firearms, but that would have to be part of the new rules about who can and can’t own a gun. City people? Why do you “need” a gun in a city? I don’t think that rights should be regulated based on whether someone lives in a rural vs. urban location. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/234 "2022-05-25T20:10:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > Self defense is NOT a legitimate need here in the States. > > It is. See Heller. The Supreme court has ruled. The supreme court is also about to rule that there’s no inherent right to privacy, that abortion can be banned by the states, and that Arizona can execute a man they know is innocent if they want because sTaTeS rIgHtS. The supreme court has made many mistakes, and Heller is one. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/235 "2022-05-25T20:18:16Z")
So, we have three choices: 1. Make Gun Control _the_ big issue, with restrictions, gun bans, licensing, registration and maybe even confiscation. Be sure to compare the USA to foreign nations since that never works anyway. None of that has a snow-balls chance in hell of passing and is generally unpopular with the voters. This will hand over control of the Federal Government to the GOP, who will re-elect trump, and for all intents and purposes end democracy in the USA. Abortion will be banned, there will be concentration camps for “illegals”, no more gay or trans rights, Obamacare will be repealed, and not only will those gun laws not be passed, laws that make it easier to carry a gun will be passed. 2. Push for mild gun control, _now._ Background checks. Stuff that is generally popular with the voters. This gun control will help keep guns out of the hands of criminals, and will reduce gun crime. 3, Do nothing, wail, teeth gnashing, etc. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/236 "2022-05-25T20:22:08Z")
Let’s be honest, our gun laws are based on conservative America’s deep seated fear of blacks. Nothing is going to change and this will continue. What does seem to have changed though, is that descent Americans are finally willing to call a baby killer a baby killer and that might be a slight ray of hope. > **[Rep. Ruben Gallego calls Ted Cruz 'baby killer' after Texas shooting](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10853603/Rep-Ruben-Gallego-calls-Ted-Cruz-baby-killer-Texas-shooting-GOP-pushes-arm-teachers.html)** > > Cruz said after the shooting, 'You see Democrats and a lot of folks in the media whose immediate solution is to try to restrict the constitutional rights of law abiding citizens.' ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/237 "2022-05-25T20:25:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Push for mild gun control, _now._ Background checks. Stuff that is generally popular with the voters. This gun control will help keep guns out of the hands of criminals, and will reduce gun crime. Fucking waste of time if the Republicans never let it come to a vote. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/238 "2022-05-25T20:29:29Z")
That will make them look bad. If the GOP blocks even the mildest and most popular gun control laws, that can be held against them come election time. Dems- Do NOT run on gun control. But we _can_ blame the GOP for school shootings if they won’t do _anything._ ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/239 "2022-05-25T20:31:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Push for mild gun control, _now._ Background checks. Stuff that is generally popular with the voters. This gun control will help keep guns out of the hands of criminals, and will reduce gun crime. It still won’t get passed in congress, so it’s exactly the same as > [@DrDeth](#): > > 3, Do nothing, wail, teeth gnashing, etc. Option 1, IMHO, is entirely made of straw. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/240 "2022-05-25T20:32:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That will make them look bad. If the GOP blocks even the mildest and most popular gun control laws, that can be held against them come election time Are you kidding me? Look bad to _who_, the nutbars they are pandering to? If you have a proposal that has a chance of getting to a vote I would LOVE to hear it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036.md?page=13)