# Uvalde, Texas school shooting - the political thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 24, 2022, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036 "2022-05-24T21:36:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/261 "2022-05-25T23:33:23Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > > > Moderate gun control could be sold as needed to keep the police from being outgunned. > > That could also work. I don’t agree. To cite but one example … the North Hollywood shootout: > **[North Hollywood shootout](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout)** > > The North Hollywood shootout, also known as the Battle of North Hollywood, was a confrontation between two heavily armed and armored bank robbers, Larry Phillips Jr. and Emil Mătăsăreanu, and members of the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) in the North Hollywood district of Los Angeles, California, United States on February 28, 1997. Both robbers were killed, twelve police officers and eight civilians were injured, and numerous vehicles and other property were damaged or destroyed by the n These … uh … gentleman had both serious firepower _and_ body armor. LEOs were famously outgunned. Lots of casualties. And what was the aftermath of that famous and highly-dramatic **[event](https://youtu.be/I_1IvZFwj0M)**? > **[North Hollywood shootout | Aftermath](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout#Aftermath)** > > The shootout contributed to motivating the arming of rank-and-file police officers in Los Angeles and nationwide with semi-automatic rifles. > The ineffectiveness of the standard small-caliber police pistols and shotguns in penetrating the robbers' body armor led to a trend in the United States toward arming selected police patrol officers, not just SWAT teams, with heavier firepower such as semi-automatic AR-15-style rifles. SWAT teams, whose close quarters battle weaponry usually consisted of su... ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/262 "2022-05-25T23:33:54Z")
[/quote] I suspect in those cases a lot of the _parents_ would be found unfit to be around guns. [/quote] BINGO. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2022, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/263 "2022-05-26T00:05:34Z")
To get a sense of how some gun supporters feel about this, check out this thread: > **[A hundred school shootings a year wouldn't change my mind](https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/o-t-lounge/a-hundred-school-shootings-a-year-wouldnt-change-my-mind/102612253/)** > > A hundred school shootings a year wouldn't change my mind - We need unrestricted access to guns to protect ourselves from the government. Its a steep price ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2022, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/264 "2022-05-26T00:09:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > > > And the Supreme Court seems about to outlaw NYC’s gun laws > > No. They are not. I oversimplified. They seem about to outlaw the may-carry New York State legal principle commonly used to limit who can get a concealed carry permit in NYC. I realize that the case now before the court originated in Rensselaer County. But in most New York State counties it is much easier to get a concealed carry permit than it is in NYC. The Rensselaer County case potentially affects New York City most. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2022, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/265 "2022-05-26T00:42:17Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > . . . the may-carry New York State legal principle Of course, I meant may-issue, not may-carry. I do proofread many times. Just not enough times. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2022, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/266 "2022-05-26T00:42:24Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > They seem about to outlaw the may-carry New York State legal principle commonly used to limit who can get a concealed carry permit in NYC. Yes. Honestly, I do not know much about the NYC law. But I do know about a similar law in CA= “may issue”. Well, that would be a good thing right? Show that you _really need_ to carry a gun, like a diamond merchant or recent death threats, or something, right? But here is how it works in actual practice in LA County- you can get a permit if you have donated heavily to a campaign or are a VIP. Not a diamond merchant, or a battered spouse feeling a homicidal husband- nope. Just if you are rich or important. And that is not how our laws should be administered. So, we need to have “shall issue” where a full background check is done, and maybe a gun safety class. Not based on how much you donated to re-elect the Sheriff. About 90% of Americans support background checks for gun sales. That is where the fight needs to be. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2022, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/267 "2022-05-26T00:48:33Z")
There was a thread here where posters said the same thing. There is no number of dead kids that will change red staters’ minds. ETA: but if black people started standing their ground, we’d have gun control this week. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2022, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/268 "2022-05-26T01:10:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, we need to have “shall issue” DO we? How about “shan’t issue”? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2022, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/269 "2022-05-26T01:16:02Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > ETA: but if black people started standing their ground, we’d have gun control this week. Ah…Well, then…we’re going to need black people to climb this Everest for us. Get it done. And Muslims, Arabs, too. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2022, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/270 "2022-05-26T01:16:08Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Kennedy was ten times the politician of most 21st century Dems. I’m not so sure. Kennedy didn’t have Fox or Limbaugh or Tucker or Facebook or Gingrich to deal with. Republicans will never again act in the nation’s interest as long as their base rewards them for obstructing everything… The lives of schoolchildren are a price that Republicans gladly pay in exchange for the never-ending votes of the gun voters. Shoutout to Beto for standing up to the creepazoid governor Abbott. It’s high time that the vast majority of Americans who favor gun control got around to voting for politicians who will deliver… ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2022, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/271 "2022-05-26T01:17:22Z")
Yeah, a white Trevor Martin fixes this. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2022, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/272 "2022-05-26T01:24:48Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Honestly, I do not know much about the NYC law. But I do know about a similar law in CA= “may issue”. Well, that would be a good thing right? . . . But here is how it works in actual practice in LA County- you can get a permit if you have donated heavily to a campaign or are a VIP. New York City has conservative media that would love to find such a scandal (Wall St. Journal, Manhattan Institute/City Journal, New York Post). But, googling, I can’t find anything [beyond evidence that the integrity of the process is enforced](https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/ex-nypd-official-paul-dean-sentenced-prison-gun-license-scam/10903/). See: [Who Can Actually Get a Gun in New York City](https://www.cityandstateny.com/politics/2022/03/who-can-actually-get-a-gun-in-new-york-city/176419/). and: [It’s tougher to buy a gun here than in most places, but if you follow the rules you can probably get one. Here is how it works:](https://nycitylens.com/wp-content/guns/new-york-city-and-its-gun-laws-how-strict-are-they/index.html) > [@](#): > > Before purchasing a gun, the buyer needs to have a handgun license or rifle/shotgun permit. . . . > > The city’s license division says that the time to process an application and get a license can vary from case to case but generally, it takes between three to six months. That last has surely saved thousands of lives. Today, you have a desparate need to shoot your spouse, or yourself. But, three to six months from now, destructive passions will have often cooled. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2022, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/273 "2022-05-26T01:32:24Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > We can no more separate the USA into red & blue physical regions than we can geographically separate the Ford drivers from the Chevy drivers. > [@madmonk28](#): > > Red state is where children are sacrificed to the second amendment. Red state is Alabama, Mississippi, West Virginia and other third world shit holes. I live in a purple suburb of a blue area in a red state. Try and carve something out for me. If it helps, I drive a domestic car. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2022, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/274 "2022-05-26T01:36:36Z")
That’s just a fairy tale white boomers tell themselves so they can sleep at night. Is your governor a Republican? Are the health indicators for your state like something from Africa in the 60s? Is it illegal to teach kids that Washington owned slaves, or that some people are gay? If so, you’re a red stater. You should get the fuck out before they marry your daughter off to a Taliban fighter. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2022, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/275 "2022-05-26T01:41:35Z")
Go ahead, insult everyone in my purple/blue/red area. That’s a great way to influence voters. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2022, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/276 "2022-05-26T01:44:18Z")
I’m not trying to influence voters. I think that the best thing for the world is for America to collapse quickly before it does more damage. Fuck red state America, they’re literal savages. ETA the sooner it collapses, the sooner we can build something worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2022, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/277 "2022-05-26T01:48:32Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > It sounds like a good idea in theory but we’ve got 25 years of practical experience here to show how it goes awry very easily. Somehow we manage it with cars and problems are few and far between (not zero, but still…) ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2022, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/278 "2022-05-26T02:23:00Z")
At the very least, I wish you had to be 21 to buy a gun. Give violent people a few years to develop impulse control, or to pick up something that would show on a background check. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2022, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/279 "2022-05-26T02:31:59Z")
You want to restrict a young man from buying an expensive Daniel Defense AR-15 non-jamming killing machine until he is 21? Next you’ll be telling me that same young man shouldn’t buy alcohol until he is 21. This is called a VERY slippery slope. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2022, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/280 "2022-05-26T02:35:41Z")
Yeahbut … As per usual, we’re _kinda’_ going the other way: > **[An Illinois gunmaker is under fire for launching a 'JR-15' rifle aimed...](https://www.businessinsider.com/gunmaker-under-fire-launching-ar-15-for-kids-reports-say-2022-2)** > > California Gov. Gavin Newsom called the "JR-15" rifle "vile" in a tweet, prior to announcing a new slate of gun control measures on Friday. > [@](#): > > Gun safety groups and California’s governor have sharply criticized an Illinois gun manufacturer for unveiling a rifle designed specifically for children, reports say. > > The JR-15, or Junior 15, is designed to be “smaller, safer, lighter” than a regular AR-15, gunmaker WEE1 Tactical said in a November [press release](https://wee1tactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/WEE1-TACTICAL-PRESS-RELEASE-SS22b.pdf) announcing the gun’s launch. > > The child-oriented weapon is roughly 20% smaller than a full-sized AR-15, but the manufacturer claims it “operates just like Mom and Dad’s gun,” according to the press release. This might have given these 4th graders a fighting chance ! [/sarcasm] #Murica ! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036.md?page=15)