# Uvalde, Texas school shooting - the political thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 24, 2022, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036 "2022-05-24T21:36:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/581 "2022-06-01T12:44:55Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I’m calling it: We will find out some of the kids were shot by the police. [https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2022/05/31/radio-call-video-child-says-i-got-shot-valencia-newsroom-vpx.cnn](https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2022/05/31/radio-call-video-child-says-i-got-shot-valencia-newsroom-vpx.cnn) “I got shot.” Not “He shot me”, but “I got shot.” Also, authorities can be heard saying “They shot a kid.” “They”? Don’t think your imaginations can go too dark on this one. As soon as I heard they were balking at the investigation, yeah, this is deeper than miscommunications and bad training: Somebody f-ed up in a way which _incontrovertibly_ led to at least one death. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/582 "2022-06-01T13:05:48Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Somebody f-ed up in a way which _incontrovertibly_ led to at least one death. It does look bad, and even worse is how it makes the 40-minute wait in the hall look. Instead of being gutless cowards, maybe they were just pure evil? Spend a half an hour or so brainstorming how to cover their asses, and maybe their solution was waiting for the shooter to kill all the kids and then hope any friendly fire deaths get lost in the shuffle. Right at this moment, cowardice is the most flattering explanation I can think of to explain the police response and their subsequent statements. I can’t find it right now, but in the first day or so didn’t some police official make a statement to the effect of “Everyone shot was shot by the gunman.”? What an odd thing to volunteer out of the blue. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/583 "2022-06-01T13:09:12Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > “I got shot.” Not “He shot me”, but “I got shot.” Also, authorities can be heard saying “They shot a kid.” “They”? I’m not saying you’re wrong, but this clip doesn’t really contradict the original narrative. A kid might say “I got shot” even if it was by the original shooter, and someone might say “they shot a kid” if they didn’t know the gender of the shooter or how many there were. Yes, something smells really bad here, but without further revelations this clip doesn’t prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/584 "2022-06-01T13:35:59Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am not a gun person but I doubt a gun in 1950 is less powerful than a gun today. > > Maybe there were some improvements in weight and accuracy but I suspect those are minor improvements. This is essentially true, small arms are not strictly more powerful than they were in 1950. In fact, many militaries used a larger caliber round in the 1950s than they use today, so the “standard issue” rifles the military uses are probably a bit less powerful per bullet, but the tradeoff is the smaller ammunition can still penetrate body armor and also weighs less, so an infantryman can carry more rounds into a fight. We had and made heavy use of .50 caliber fully automatic machine guns in WWII which would turn just about anything to Swiss cheese 75 years ago just as well as it would today. I do think the typical weapon used by criminals is probably more lethal today than in 1950. My understanding, albeit it isn’t backed by hard data, is criminals mostly preferred small weapons that were easily concealed and carried back in the past–your .32 snub-nose revolvers and such. I think 9mm and .40 cal handguns are a lot more common in the civilian (and probably criminal) population in the 2020s than in the 1950s. Modern semiautomatic assault rifles are also a lot more common in society, even 35 years ago AR-Variants and AK variants were still fairly niche weapons owned by enthusiasts, but the AR-15 variant is like one of the best selling guns in America for many years running now, and they will produce much more serious wounds than was probably typical of guns people typically used in crimes in 1950. But the technology behind them isn’t intrinsically revolutionary versus 1950s tech by any means, there are some composite materials and tooling etc that are new, and they can make them lighter cheaper now than you could have done back then. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/585 "2022-06-01T13:45:09Z")
There’s been some updates to the timeline. Apparently the shooter wasn’t confronted outside the school by a school resource officer. Instead, that officer drove past the shooter, who was crouched next to a car shooting, to confront the unarmed teacher. Also, a teacher did close the propped open door, but the lock did not engage. Given how many misstatements, false statements, and in some cases undoubtedly outright lies people have been told, it’ll be interesting to see what does eventually get pieced together out of this mess. There’s absolutely no doubt the local police messed up. The question is precisely how and to what extent. There appears to be a bit more organization at the federal level, but who knows how much of what they’ve said so far is accurate? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/586 "2022-06-01T18:37:58Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Decreased gun safety = more cost to society (how much does a hospital stay for a gun shot cost? Bet it is more than the cost of a gun…not to mention court costs and prison costs) When people hear on the news about a plane crash, plane travel generally tapers off a bit. It’s not that no one flies, but on the margin, people cancel flights or don’t book them out of fear. When people hear about a mass shooting, gun sales go up. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/587 "2022-06-01T18:54:35Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > When people hear on the news about a plane crash, plane travel generally tapers off a bit. It’s not that no one flies, but on the margin, people cancel flights or don’t book them out of fear. > > When people hear about a mass shooting, gun sales go up. There’s more we can do with this analogy. If an airliner were shot down inside U.S. airspace by someone with a privately owned missile, the gun lobby response would be consternation about video games and Jeebuslessness, handwringing over the mental health crisis, advocating more fighter jet patrols and _increased private ownership of missiles_. The best protection against a bad guy with a missile is a good guy with an anti-missile missile, right? And don’t tell me that I don’t need an AMRAAM to hunt coyotes, those critters can _jump_. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/588 "2022-06-01T19:11:56Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > And don’t tell me that I don’t need an AMRAAM to hunt coyotes, those critters can _jump_ . And anti-aircraft weapons are sporting equipment. Great for skeet shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/589 "2022-06-01T19:15:12Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > When people hear about a mass shooting, gun sales go up. This is true, but it’s not the only time gun sales go up. From this [article](https://www.grid.news/story/politics/2022/05/26/why-americans-feel-like-they-need-guns/): > The three highest months were March 2020, when the covid pandemic was declared; December 2012, after the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting; and in December 2015, following a mass shooting in San Bernardino, California. > They also increased to more than 2 million in June 2020, as the Black Lives Matter protests erupted across the country in the wake of George Floyd’s murder by a Minneapolis police officer. > > High-profile shootings (or really any major events where there is a perceived threat to safety), according to experts, feed into the top reason gun owners say they purchase firearms: **worry over personal safety.** Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/590 "2022-06-01T19:19:21Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am not a gun person but I doubt a gun in 1950 is less powerful than a gun today. > > Maybe there were some improvements in weight and accuracy but I suspect those are minor improvements. Some guns of today actually are more powerful than the typical guns of the 1950’s, although I suspect ammunition is also a major factor in that. The AR-15 wasn’t offered to civilians until the 1960’s and I’m pretty sure it didn’t get really popular until the 1970’s. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/591 "2022-06-01T19:20:40Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > This is true, but it’s not the only time gun sales go up. Right but that is orthogonal to my point. The airline has an interest in making you feel safe, they make more money that way. > [@Railer13](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > the top reason gun owners say they purchase firearms: **worry over personal safety.** The gun manufactures want you to feel unsafe, they make more money that way. ---
**Author:** ![mtnmatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a3d4f5/32.png) [@mtnmatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mtnmatt)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/592 "2022-06-01T20:33:30Z")
In addition to being able to shoot many more bullets quickly (1/sec without a bump stock) the AR-15 style bullets do a ton more damage, as 60 Minutes covered this week: > **[What makes the AR-15 style rifle the weapon of choice for mass shooters?](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ar-15-mass-shootings-60-minutes-2022-05-29/)** > > Some of the worst massacres in recent memory have had something in common: the AR-15 style rifle. Scott Pelley reports on why the high-velocity rounds used in the gun make it so deadly. They demoed bullets going through gelatin and a normal bullet goes straight through more or less, while the AR-fired bullet “tumbles” and does far more damage. They are actually training EMTs to treat different kind of wounds - the doc from the area around Marjorie Stoneman Douglas HS gave his kid a tourniquet to carry with him. On the same day, CBS Sunday Morning talked about how the Sandy Hook parents won the suit against Remington, by showing how they marketed the ARs to young men, appealing to how it would enhance their manliness: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ZJwf7oBVHKE/maxresdefault.jpg "How Sandy Hook families, gunmaker settled unprecedented lawsuit") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJwf7oBVHKE) Marketing wasn’t covered in the law passed otherwise protecting gun manufacturers from lawsuits. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2022, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/593 "2022-06-02T02:24:10Z")
> I’ll take “How Not To Cover Your Ass” for $400, Ken. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2022, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/594 "2022-06-02T04:10:06Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’ll take “How Not To Cover Your Ass” for $400, Ken. The 38,000 “likes” are making me slightly uncomfortable. I trust they are signaling approval of Brian Tyler Cohen for bringing the asshattery to our attention, rather than approval of the asshattery. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2022, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/595 "2022-06-02T12:17:38Z")
I’m sure many ‘say’ they feel unsafe in the wake of these shootings but (anecdote not proof) most of the anti-gun restriction folks I’ve talked to buy more firearms and ammunition right after mass shootings in fear that _this_ time, effective restrictions will be put into place and better to buy now before it’s too late. FOMO, basically. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2022, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/596 "2022-06-02T13:15:32Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [x.com](https://mobile.twitter.com/NoLieWithBTC/status/1532100681070428162) > > I’ll take “How Not To Cover Your Ass” for $400, Ken. They’ll “explain themselves to the parents once ‘the families quit grieving’”? Anyone with a beating heart knows they will _never_ stop grieving. What a slime. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2022, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/597 "2022-06-02T13:30:44Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > They’ll “explain themselves to the parents once ‘the families quit grieving’”? Anyone with a beating heart knows they will _never_ stop grieving. What a slime Exactly! [![](https://i.imgflip.com/6icj6k.jpg) ](https://i.imgflip.com/6icj6k.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2022, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/598 "2022-06-02T16:16:47Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Of course, this is difficult to impossible in this country, but also considering how poorly we fund schools in this country, more realistic than redesigning/rebuilding school buildings. I don’t mind it so much when grown ass adults get shot down by a crazy gunman. They knew the risks and tolerated them and made their own choices about where they would live, go to shop, drink or dance. They probably even voted for keeping things the same. But kids don’t have a choice, they rely on us to see to their own safety and we put them in places that are unsafe and they pay the maximum price because of that. You don’t pay it, they pay it. You think you pay it because you grieve? No, they pay it because they will never have anything again. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/599 "2022-06-02T17:49:27Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > I don’t mind it so much when grown ass adults get shot down by a crazy gunman. I mean, I do. That’s a bit of an odd perspective. > [@Isamu](#): > > They knew the risks and tolerated them and made their own choices about where they would live, go to shop, drink or dance. One could argue that you knew the risks of eating in the mall food court, but you thought you were risking _food_ poisoning, not lead. > [@Isamu](#): > > They probably even voted for keeping things the same. Unlikely. Some may have, but most did not. > [@Isamu](#): > > But kids don’t have a choice, they rely on us to see to their own safety and we put them in places that are unsafe and they pay the maximum price because of that. Kids live in places, shop in places, drink and dance in places as well. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2022, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036/600 "2022-06-02T23:47:03Z")
Way back in July of 2015 I posted [this thread about armed civilians pretending to protect military recruiters](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929) after, IIRC, _one incident_. So, we’ve yet another school shooting. Where are these “good guys with guns” to protect the schools? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-the-political-thread/965036.md?page=31)