# V hand sign in the Middle East **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 4, 2014, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-hand-sign-in-the-middle-east/694753 "2014-08-04T02:02:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-hand-sign-in-the-middle-east/694753/1 "2014-08-04T02:02:31Z")
What does it mean? Is it a “Victory” sign, a peace sign as in the USA, or a f-ck you sign, as in Europe? ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-hand-sign-in-the-middle-east/694753/2 "2014-08-04T02:11:00Z")
In Europe, the V-sign is only an insult if the back of the hand is towards the observer. If the hand is turned the other way, then it’s a victory sign or a peace sign, depending on the context. ---
**Author:** ![Lars\_Aruns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@Lars\_Aruns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lars_Aruns)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-hand-sign-in-the-middle-east/694753/3 "2014-08-04T10:27:55Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > In Europe, the V-sign is only an insult if the back of the hand is towards the observer. If the hand is turned the other way, then it’s a victory sign or a peace sign, depending on the context. As far as I can tell, the V with the back of the hand towards the observer is only an insult in Britain. Maybe in Ireland as well. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-hand-sign-in-the-middle-east/694753/4 "2014-08-04T11:42:18Z")
> [@Lars\_Aruns](#): > > As far as I can tell, the V with the back of the hand towards the observer is only an insult in Britain. Maybe in Ireland as well. And even in Britain and Ireland many people don’t differentiate between the V-front and V-back gestures. There are plenty of photos of British celebrities (notably including Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher) giving the V-back gesture in contexts where they clearly mean to express victory rather than contempt. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-hand-sign-in-the-middle-east/694753/5 "2014-08-04T13:14:41Z")
Churchill intended the “V for Victory” to be an insult to the Germans, did he not? But what do the Palestinians intend it to be? “Peace, let’s stop fighting” or “Screw you”? ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-hand-sign-in-the-middle-east/694753/6 "2014-08-04T13:31:28Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Churchill intended the “V for Victory” to be an insult to the Germans, did he not? I doubt it. The back-handed V is pretty offensive as far as gestures go—think of the raised middle finger, only worse. Even today someone like Bush or Obama wouldn’t be caught dead triumphantly flipping the bird to celebrate a military victory, so I think it would be even less likely for a dignified British politician to do it in the much more socially conservative 1940s. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-hand-sign-in-the-middle-east/694753/7 "2014-08-04T13:37:40Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > And even in Britain and Ireland many people don’t differentiate between the V-front and V-back gestures. There are plenty of photos of British celebrities (notably including Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher) giving the V-back gesture in contexts where they clearly mean to express victory rather than contempt. That’s because Churchill was [in a gang](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_U1Unbf6HVBw/R-b-r-ymvbI/AAAAAAAABJ4/TofjFZ3eI2I/s1600-h/churchill.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-hand-sign-in-the-middle-east/694753/8 "2014-08-04T13:54:45Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > I doubt it. The back-handed V is pretty offensive as far as gestures go—think of the raised middle finger, only worse. Even today someone like Bush or Obama wouldn’t be caught dead triumphantly flipping the bird to celebrate a military victory, so I think it would be even less likely for a dignified British politician to do it in the much more socially conservative 1940s. You [fight ignorance](http://life.time.com/history/v-for-victory-a-gesture-of-solidarity-and-defiance/#1), Sir! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-hand-sign-in-the-middle-east/694753/9 "2014-08-04T13:58:59Z")
The Washington Post says that it denotes [popular resistance.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/from-churchill-to-libya-how-the-v-symbol-went-viral/2011/03/18/AFzPiYYB_story.html) ---
**Author:** ![Toastmaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Toastmaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toastmaker)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-hand-sign-in-the-middle-east/694753/10 "2014-08-04T15:40:42Z")
The Washington Post should be popularly resisted. . . ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-hand-sign-in-the-middle-east/694753/11 "2014-08-04T15:56:08Z")
> [@Toastmaker](#): > > The Washington Post should be popularly resisted. . . 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-hand-sign-in-the-middle-east/694753/12 "2014-08-04T16:29:05Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > And even in Britain and Ireland many people don’t differentiate between the V-front and V-back gestures. There are plenty of photos of British celebrities (notably including Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher) giving the V-back gesture in contexts where they clearly mean to express victory rather than contempt. Maybe back then. These days it is a clear distinction and you’d be mocked for getting it wrong.