# V inspired alien question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 12, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322 "2009-11-12T16:02:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322/41 "2009-11-15T12:40:47Z")
Piffle, Cortez’s best weapon was the Aztecs belief in him. Ooh, he traveled across the big void, he must be bad ass, we don’t want to piss him off, he must be able to fling Jupiters moons at us. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322/42 "2009-11-15T14:34:06Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > Piffle, > The analogy of Cortez and the Aztecs is particularly useful. IANA historian, but if I recall correctly, Cortez had gone renegade, was off his mission, without back up, and conquered the New World with bluff, bluster and small pox. If the Aztecs had had a real leader and landed on the Spanish decisively things might have been very different. Like say..Geronimo? IMHO it would not matter. As a general rule when a technologically advanced civilization encounters a less advanced civilization that has something it desires, the more advanced one tends to dominate. ---
**Author:** ![Shawn1767](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shawn1767](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn1767)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322/43 "2009-11-15T16:24:42Z")
I thought I remember reading somewhere ( I _thought_ it was the Bad Astronomer’s website, but I can’t find it or maybe it was in the “P_hysics of Star Trek_” book), where it was stated that all an alien race (like the ships in Independence Day) would have to do is hover over the city because of the physics involved it would destroy the city anyway without them having to fire a single weapon. Also, why use physical weapons? Surely, any advanced race could engineer some sort of biological weapon that would kill everyone without destroying all the buildings. It’s like if someone has telekinesis, they always do HUGELY suspicious activities like making someone’s head explode. Why not just cause a tiny blood vessel to break and give someone a stroke instead? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322/44 "2009-11-15T16:41:24Z")
> [@Shawn1767](#): > > It’s like if someone has telekinesis, they always do HUGELY suspicious activities like making someone’s head explode. Why not just cause a tiny blood vessel to break and give someone a stroke instead? Regarding my list of “Folks I Wish Something Would Happen To”, head exploding is a lot more cool that a stroke. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Shawn1767](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shawn1767](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn1767)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322/45 "2009-11-15T16:54:31Z")
Yeah, cooler, but you’d arouse less suspicion if people died of apparently natural causes than if people’s heads exploded every time you were around. “hmm… in each one of these cases of head explosion, carnivorousplant was around…” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322/46 "2009-11-15T17:56:00Z")
> [@Shawn1767](#): > > Yeah, cooler, but you’d arouse less suspicion if people died of apparently natural causes than if people’s heads exploded every time you were around. > > “hmm.. in each one of these cases of head explosion, carnivorousplant was around…” Klingon parents tell their children, “It is nice to be liked by your little friends, but it is far more useful to be feared by them.” ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322/47 "2009-11-15T21:44:44Z")
> [@Shawn1767](#): > > I thought I remember reading somewhere ( I _thought_ it was the Bad Astronomer’s website, but I can’t find it or maybe it was in the “P_hysics of Star Trek_” book), where it was stated that all an alien race (like the ships in Independence Day) would have to do is hover over the city because of the physics involved it would destroy the city anyway without them having to fire a single weapon. > Also, why use physical weapons? Surely, any advanced race could engineer some sort of biological weapon that would kill everyone without destroying all the buildings. Well the problem is that no one knows how technology that could make a billion tons of space ship hover weightlessly would work. In the movie it always appears to be magical anti-gravity. They never produce any wind though. I would think several cubic miles of even a skow moving ship would create some sizable vortexes as it moves. > [@Shawn1767](#): > > It’s like if someone has telekinesis, they always do HUGELY suspicious activities like making someone’s head explode. Why not just cause a tiny blood vessel to break and give someone a stroke instead? Because I can… ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322/48 "2009-11-15T23:45:11Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Like say..Geronimo? What’s your point? Geronimo faced a well established enemy that had him out manned and outgunned and had essentially limitless resupply. Cortez was isolated with little hope of back up. He could’ve killed 50:1 and still lost through attrition. > [@](#): > > IMHO it would not matter. As a general rule when a technologically advanced civilization encounters a less advanced civilization that has something it desires, the more advanced one tends to dominate. Well, I agree completely, assuming we’re facing a civilization. I’m just postulating an admittedly unlikely scenario where a small, ragtag group that can project, at least to us, the illusion of greater numbers and can’t believe their good fortune in stumbling on a planet that can support their lifeform, and if they can only bluff the yokels for awhile they’ll be able to enslave the whole race. Some of our most impressive looking vessels to date have had shit for weapons. It’s taken us 5000 years to build a canoe, of course we’d be impressed by the Queen Mary, that doesn’t make it the Nimitz. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322/49 "2009-11-16T22:23:04Z")
I agree that hovering over major cities is not the way to make a benevolent greeting. In The Left Hand Of Darkness, the Ecumen (the federation of planets) sends a single ambassador to a planet. When (non spoiler) he reveals that he has a ship in orbit in the solar system with his staff, the native king fears that this is the point when the spaceman unleashes an army. Instead, the ambassador says that there are eleven people on the ship in stasis. Re Hovering Ships Since the change to digital, I don’t get ABC. I am on dial up so Hulu and the like do me no good. Did they ever say how high the V ships are hovering? If they are over major cities and staying stationary, I foresee them becoming popular nesting places for pigeons. Re Cortes Nope, the right analogy is the Sheliaq Coporate. Data is unable to rationally convince a group of colonists that aliens are coming and will kill them. Finally, he tries an appeal to emotion. He announces that he will destroy the aqueduct the colonists are so proud of. He tells them when and where he will do it. Then, he shows up, phasers a few colonists and disintegrates miles of aqueduct with one shot. Data then explains ‘The Sheliaq will attack from orbit, and their weapons are far more powerful.’ That’s the way it would be. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322/50 "2009-11-17T16:29:13Z")
> [@Shawn1767](#): > > Yeah, cooler, but you’d arouse less suspicion if people died of apparently natural causes than if people’s heads exploded every time you were around. > > “hmm.. in each one of these cases of head explosion, carnivorousplant was around…” Of course, if you don’t want your head exploded, what are you going to do about it? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322/51 "2009-11-17T16:40:11Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Of course, if you don’t want your head exploded, what are you going to do about it? Would you please elaborate? I don’t know to ask for your resume or begin to concentrate on the pressure in your cerebellum. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322/52 "2009-11-17T18:30:44Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > …I recall a ST:TNG episode along those very lines, this chick was a pirate, researching less advanced worlds and using basic technology and their credulity to rip them off… This may be the one you mean: [Devil's Due (Star Trek: The Next Generation) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_Due_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)) ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322/53 "2009-11-17T20:39:47Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Since aliens with interstellar spacefaring capacity aren’t likely to need us as slaves (or food), or need any resources our civilization could provide; yet if they wanted to just kill us all, they could just nuke us from orbit–the “hovering over our cities” scenario implies some need to dominate us (but not kill us); and the best explanation I can come up with for wanting to dominate (but not necessarily kill) a species with a vastly lower level of technology and no resources you need is some kind of religious or quasi-religious motiviation. You are assuming that they have a rational (by our standards) culture. We have no idea what they value, if anything. Humans do a lot of wierd stuff, and inefficiently, just because it’s fun or tastes good. In the Alien/Predator universe, the Predators have a hunting culture and ritual. They expend a lot of energy to do some solo hunting prey that they feel is dangerous enough to be a worthy foe. Maybe the hovering Aliens like their human organs fresh, and not replicated or cloned? Maybe they like Madonna’s fashion sense, and come to ask her some home decorating tips? If they are indeed uber advanced, then doing silly stuff for non-sensical (to us) reasons becomes more likely, not less, because it is easier to do. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322/54 "2009-11-17T20:55:24Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > You are assuming that they have a rational (by our standards) culture. > > We have no idea what they value, if anything. I’m thinking some kind on concession stand, be the theme Liver-On-A-Stick, Flavored Transmission oil, Snow Globes of Major Cities, or Madonna Collectibles. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322/55 "2009-11-19T09:53:10Z")
Well, by suggesting they’re here to convert us to their alien religion, I meant to suggest that their motives might be somewhat irrational, or at least non-rational. As far as just wanting to get Madonna’s autograph or whatever: As various people have pointed out, hovering over our cities in big-ass ships is inherently a hostile or at least dominant act. It’s very unlikely the aliens could fail to grasp this. While not as hostile as blowing us up straight off, it conveys an unmistakeable “gunboat diplomacy” sort of vibe. If they aren’t trying to, at the very least, openly and nakedly assert a superior status in the galactic pecking order compared to us, there are many better ways they could make contact. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322/56 "2009-11-19T10:11:47Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Humans do a lot of wierd stuff, and inefficiently, just because it’s fun or tastes good. Or because we don’t understand the whys and wherefores of that specific management method / regulation / whatever, so we get stuck on the little details. Case in mind, that pharma company where any analytical result (individual results) had to be signed off electronically by 10 people, of which 8 had not set foot in the lab and 5 were not in the same country as the lab: the origin of this was the pharma regulation that “anything you record has to be verified for accuracy, completeness and clarity by another person,” but they clearly had blown it out of proportion. We could get exterminated by someone who got told “clean that area” and went into overdrive. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322/57 "2009-11-19T14:29:26Z")
John Scalzi in his excellent _Old Man’s War_ military sf series has humanity butting heads with a lot of alien races, some of which are so different from us in their social structure, religion, brain chemistry, family relationships, etc. that their motivations are simply unfathomable to us. Even if one were to sit down and explain in our own language why they did what they did, it would make no sense at all to us - but seem perfectly sensible to them. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322/58 "2009-11-19T15:21:37Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Well, by suggesting they’re here to convert us to their alien religion, I meant to suggest that their motives might be somewhat irrational, or at least non-rational. > > As far as just wanting to get Madonna’s autograph or whatever: As various people have pointed out, hovering over our cities in big-ass ships is inherently a hostile or at least dominant act. It’s very unlikely the aliens could fail to grasp this. While not as hostile as blowing us up straight off, it conveys an unmistakeable “gunboat diplomacy” sort of vibe. If they aren’t trying to, at the very least, openly and nakedly assert a superior status in the galactic pecking order compared to us, there are many better ways they could make contact. Again, you assume that their motives have to make sense. The only thing we can assume by observing their ships hovering over our cities is that they demonstrably have the knowledge (physics theories correctly grasped) and ability (practical application of physics knowledge, and shipbuilding infrastructure in place) to do so. Until they step out and say howdy, anything else is a guess. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322/59 "2009-11-21T08:52:33Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > This may be the one you mean: [Devil's Due (Star Trek: The Next Generation) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_Due_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)) Exactly! The Quislings in this thread are gonna feel mighty foolish. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322/60 "2009-11-21T11:03:38Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > You are assuming that they have a rational (by our standards) culture. > > We have no idea what they value, if anything. > > Humans do a lot of wierd stuff, and inefficiently, just because it’s fun or tastes good. > > In the Alien/Predator universe, the Predators have a hunting culture and ritual. They expend a lot of energy to do some solo hunting prey that they feel is dangerous enough to be a worthy foe. > > Maybe the hovering Aliens like their human organs fresh, and not replicated or cloned? > > Maybe they like Madonna’s fashion sense, and come to ask her some home decorating tips? > > If they are indeed uber advanced, then doing silly stuff for non-sensical (to us) reasons becomes more likely, not less, because it is easier to do. Or maybe hovering over cities is their way of greeting. Was it in Babylon Five where the Earth-Minbari war was caused by a misunderstanding like that? The Minbari ship was approached by an Earth ship. To the Minbari having their gun ports open was a sign of greeting and respect, but the human captain saw it as a threatening move. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/v-inspired-alien-question/517322.md?page=4)