Such millionaires are not undeserving; they are simply not in a state of need.
Yeah, that’s what we call prison. Once punishment is served, a person should not be subjected to an ongoing punishment that essentially creates a second class of citizenry. If this person is that bad for society, that would justify keeping him or her in prison longer, perhaps.
Again, it’s fiction, free from all the complex interactions of cause and effect that the real world is subject to. It takes a mind subject to a certain kind of sheltering to speak of fiction as “quite superior” to the real world.
What if I said that I think the pre-Scouring society of the Shire was quite superior to ours? In order to achieve that utopia, we should all become small farmers, tradesmen, and producers of 18th century technological goods and we should live in burrows.
Doesn’t matter; they serve as a bottomless source of guns for criminals, and plenty of people get killed by accident or due to temper. All so people can play with lethal toys. Votes, on the other hand are important.
To me the whole matter for debate is separate from whether felons should get their voting rights back. States, including Virginia, already have statutes and processes governing under what circumstances their rights can be restored- if you want to change those fine and dandy so long as you go through channels, but I think tacking on a “Why I love apple pie and the Star Spangled Banner” is just more pandering and posturing from a neo-Confederate asswipe* determined to get as much of a head start for “most deranged fundie in power” before Roy Moore gets elected to the Alabama governorship.
If my freedom or rights depended on it I could- and offered enough incentives or duress probably would- write you a kick ass essay on anything from “Why Adolf Hitler Should Be Posthumously Made an American and Given the Congressional Medal of Freedom” to “Why Lee Marvin’s recording of I Was Born Under a Wand’rin Star should be played at every Federal event”. It doesn’t mean that I believe a word of it or that it serves any purpose. I understand the desire for felons to have functional literacy before being released, but an essay on “What I’ve done on my probation vacation”- really? Really? Because what- you’ve heard felons are incapable of telling you what you want to hear if it’s on paper?
Are you going to take off for punctuation I wonder? Return them to jail if they don’t cite in APA style properly? The chair if it proves plagiarized? This is bullshit, posturing pandering bullshit and that’s all it is.
*In related news, my facebook readers will know that I have formally declared this to be “Confederate Dysentery Victims Heritage Week and a Half” in honor of the more than 75,000 Confederate soldiers- one of them my ancestor- who shat themselves to death in the cause of states rights and freedom for their plutocratic slaveowning rulers. Believe it or not these sacrifices have been ignored for more than 145 years and it’s high time they were honored (though caveat: the reenactments will be a little bit gross so you might want to wear some Ben Gay under the nostrils).
No, they shouldn’t. People shouldn’t be punished beyond their term in prison. And people should be allowed to vote despite committing crimes because part of what determines if something is a crime or not in the first place is public opinion; plenty of people have been convicted of crimes for things now legal, like homosexuality. And our justice system is so corrupt and prejudiced that eliminating the votes of felons amounts to the enforcement of bigotry. Race and gender and the size of your bank account are more important that what you did or didn’t do to whether or not you end up convicted of a felony.
Amen! That’s exactly how OJ Simpson managed to avoid a conviction for murder in his criminal trial! Also what major crimes punishable by felony do you believe is unfair.
At what point does admitting you were wrong cross over into sucking up to authority? Yes, people who committed felonies for their own selfish gain should have to shown some contrition. But the world is full of self-righteous hypocrites who use their power to make people say “pretty please with sugar on top”. I can’t approach this subject objectively because I have some major issues with [del]punishment[/del]“discipline”, and I for one have no respect for the moral authority of people who piously lecture you while they hold clubs and guns.
Yes, he brutally murdered those white people and got away with it. So what. I’m sure not one person here shed a shred of outrage for Rodney King, Malice Green, or Robert Davis and the exoneration of the police officers that beat them to a pulp - on camera. Far as I’m concerned, the mournful wails of Goldman family can add to to the chorus of minorities who, since their arrival on these shores four hundred years ago, have been bitch-slapped by the justice system and ground to dust by law enforcement, while whites looked on in mild indifference or detatched amazement. What makes you angry about OJ used the same tools white people use, money, to got out of shit that would normally send them to prison. Get it over it or do something to change the justice system.
To answer the OP: If Viriginia is going to take away a felon’s right to vote then their prisoner population shouldn’t be counted in tallying Electoral College votes and federal aid. Or, at the very least, count them as 3/5ths to make it fair to States who actually let their prisoners vote.
This is a strange thing to say. I admit that I don’t recall (immediately) the case of Robert Davis. But I am familiar with Malice Green and (of course) Rodney King. I was outraged. I’m not the only one.
I am sorry but I can’t go along with this. I don’t see how you can continue to punish someone after their parole is over. Once you say “you are free to go, don’t fuck up again” you should be free to go and be a normal citizen. I wasn’t raised that voting was a privelage, it was your job as a citizen to vote, part of being an American adult.
For those who wish to apply their moral outlook to the issue, thats fine, but I almost had a felony when I was 20. I was pulled over for drunk driving when I was the designated driver and thrown in jail for days. I was charged with a felony account of obstruction of a highway and other charges. Those charges dissappeared when I paid a lawyer 3000 dollars. If I didn’t have the cash when I had the opportunity, I would have a felony. A complete bullshit felony, so therefore I would be too morally corrupt to vote then, right? Because of the conviction?
You’re right. The Census does (and should) count everyone. That shouldn’t change. What I am saying is that prisoners (who are denied the right to vote) and ex-felons (who are denied the right to vote) should not be counted in tallying the amount of electoral votes and representation in Congress. That is, when redistricting, prisoners and ex-felons numbers shouldn’t be counted to determine electoral votes. I’m also in favor of counting ex-felons and prisoners as 3/5ths of a person so that to prevent States from inflating their population and subsequent representation in Congress. It’s only fair to the few States that do allow prisoners and ex-felons to participate in elections.
I don’t buy the argument that felons are in the same boat as non-citizens, children, or the mentally handicapped. These were people who onced possessed civil rights and have had them permanently stripped. If the State is going to go so far as to prevent prisoners and ex-felons from voting, then they ought not to reap the tangible awards for that individual. I also think that removing the right to vote to prisoners - but especially felons - creates a quasi-caste system that is uniquely unAmerican.